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3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

professor95
Explorer
Explorer
professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy


For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at โ€œcloningโ€ reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a โ€œrunningโ€ display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. โ€œSupposedlyโ€ Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for โ€œabove average qualityโ€ Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an โ€œavailability listingโ€.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings โ€“ most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is โ€œreasonablyโ€ quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a โ€œlook alikeโ€ eng...






















Professor Randy T. Agee & Nancy Agee. Also Oscar, the totally ruined Dachshund.
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.
10,029 REPLIES 10,029

scottz
Explorer
Explorer
Lou,
Good work, thanks for sharing.

I noticed you took air in from the bottom and let it vent out the top. Any guesses how it would have worked if you took air in from one side (low) and exhaust it on the other side (high)?

MrWizard
Moderator
Moderator
Roamer, did you check the Circuit breakers

if one is bad or tripped or has a loose connection, it would give you, a 1/2 power/amps condition.
I can explain it to you.
But I Can Not understand it for you !

....

Connected using T-Mobile Home internet and Visible Phone service
1997 F53 Bounder 36s

Oldfordman
Explorer
Explorer
LLeopold wrote:
I just completed my "project" that I eluded to in some posts in this thread and in the Beginning RVing section.

Good looking results. What was the published noise level of the Power Pro 3500 before you started. IIRC these were just a little louder than the Champions to begin with (although not much).

I would consider a setup like you built with larger fans, to carry in the bed of my Pickup rather than the back bumper of my TT.
Life is full of choices. I choose to have fun!:)

Wgeorge11
Explorer
Explorer
Has anyone out there had a problem with fuel leaking from the fuel tank/cock connection? I've had three tanks leak, and tightened one until it broke. I need HELP! Please
Traveling companion

firedude
Explorer
Explorer
Wow Lou! Very nice finished project!!!!! I ha a blast working on that with you, but you sure did an excellent job on the finished product!:)

Tony

Wuttevr
Explorer
Explorer
The Roamer wrote:
Does anybody use this gen. at 7000 Ft.


Yes, on several occasions. That would be the minimum elevation that I have used it at. What I will say is that I was unable to run my A/C and microwave simultaneously at about that level.
No more

P_J1
Explorer
Explorer
Wow Lou, very impressive. That far exceeds what I had in mind for mine!
2004 Colorado 28BH-M5
2006 CTD DRW/QC 4X4
Check out my States visted map,..... WE GET AROUND, HUH?!

LLeopold
Explorer
Explorer
I just completed my "project" that I eluded to in some posts in this thread and in the Beginning RVing section.

If you recall I purchased a Wen PowerPro 3500 unit ($249.99) and rewired it according to the instructions on Page 90 (well, I did the simpler thing by wiring it directly to produce 120V 30A (actually 28A) only, IIRC those directions were around page 92 - Wyatt-S's post).

In any event, the next part of the project was to build a sound box with the intent to get the noise to that of an Honda e2000i or less and keep the temperature within operating specs of the unit (not more than 140 degrees interior).

So, after contacting Fleetwood to see what load I can put on my FW's bumper (I was assured that the bumper could handle up to 500 lbs.), I initially installed a bumper receiver hitch ($35.00) and attached the cargo carrier ($75.00). I then built the sound box using plywood and sound board to line it. That was created from plywood that I already had (no cost there) and sound board (MBX) and various parts. Cost there was approximately $55.00 including hardware - "L" brackets, screws, vent covers, etc.) With plywood, it might have come closer to maybe $75.00.

I mounted the generator inside and then took a test drive for weight.

Well, while the cargo carrier (75 lbs.), the sound box (36 lbs.) and the generator (appox. 100 lbs.) were well under the 500 lbs. static, driving produced a force in excess and I could see from the shadows cast that this would not work. I had to have a receiver hitch welded to the frame of my FW.

So, I had that done and mounted the unit onto the new receiver hitch ($230.00 complete). So far so good.

Now for the sound test.... I had the opportunity to camp with my fellow moderator, Tony (Firedude) back in February, who owns a Honda e2000i. We had talked about the project over the course of the year and he was very interested to see how it would turn out.

We first fired up his Honda and put it into eco-mode then stepped back. Sounded nice and quiet. We then put a load onto it and again stepped back. We also had a California State Park Ranger take part at one point to give us the "official's" word as to noise level. We now had our "standard."

We then started up my unit and stepped back. It was actually quieter than his Honda (when not in eco-mode). We applied a load, and it was no different (small amount of lugging, then back to normal).

We then looked at temperatures. With no vent holes (other than the exhaust pipe, a blower motor ($29.00) to bring in fresh air and an exhaust fan ($25.00), the temperature went high (to around 200 degrees F). That's no good. So, we started cutting vent holes in the cover. I was concerned that we were creating holes for the noise to escape as well, but figured, this was part of the project. We started with three holes and that helped a bit. We added three more and the temp was now down to around 160 degrees F. Still a bit high for my liking. The sound, however, was still quieter than his Honda (non-eco mode). I was pleasantly surprised.

So, we attached a vent pipe and cap to the blower motor to direct the incoming air directly over the motor ($30.00). I also added a second exhaust fan ($25.00).

That did the trick. We were now at 140 degrees F and still quieter than the Honda. We confirmed this with the park ranger who said that the noise level was very acceptable at the state parks.

I did replace the circuit breaker ($30.00) that came with the generator as when I applied a full load (air conditioner + microwave), it would pop the breaker. I also beefed up the wiring between the generator head and the outlets so that the wires could handle the full 30 amp load if need be (12/2 for 4 feet - 2 from the generator hot to the CB, and 2 from the CB to the outlets hot terminal, and 2 from the generator neutral to the outlets for the neutral terminal; the ground is grounded to the trailer chassis and to the outlets ground terminal).

Total cost for the project: $784.00 (that puts out 30 amps and is quieter than the Honda e2000i)
Cost of a Honda e2000i: $999.00 (that puts out 20 amps), you might be able to get it at $899.00 but I haven't seen it cheaper.
Cost of a Honda 3000i: around $1200.00 to 1500.00 (and louder than the two previous items).

The "cleanliness" of the output has already been discussed by another poster in this thread, and I'll tell you that the electrical output from this generator is cleaner than my own home's electricity.

So, finally, here are the pictures of the results.







Lou Leopold
Between RVs at this point
but I continue to tent camp!

The_Roamer
Explorer
Explorer
Does anybody use this gen. at 7000 Ft.
The Man, The Woman
4 Dawgs: Adrian, Cooper(Boxers) Bear(Shitzu)
05 Dodge RAM 2500 QC, 4x4, 5.9 CTD, 48RE, 3.73
Xzillaraider 100
Pilgrim Fifth Wheel 274RL-5
Reese 16K Slider
Champion 3500w Gen. (Still on the fence, #2 is in for repair %@$%$)

themave
Explorer
Explorer
Wgeorge11 wrote:
There has been a lot of thought and effort re quieting the Champ, and posted in this forum. I recall the Professor was especially interested in the subject. A quick search turned up p286. Best do an indepth search as there are a lot of posts looking for sound abatement solutions over the past two years.
referencing page numbers doesn't work for a lot of people, my page settings must be different then yours because this post, is showing on page 167 of 167 when I posted it. so I don't even have a page 286 that you are refering to.

Hey, I found it, my preferences is to show 20 post per page, yours must be 10, so I looked at page 143 and found it.
A king size bed sure beats tent camping, not as young as I used to be, that ground sure got hard
2005 Cardinal 312BH with king size bed
2001 F250 Supercrew Longbed 7.3l diesel with banks power kit

ddav15
Explorer
Explorer
Simi Mike wrote:
I just have to pipe in here....I picked mine up yesterday at the local Kragens for $299+tax. After I gave it a short warm up, with some new gas out of a clean tank, I plugged in the Trailer and flicked on everything I could think of. The Champ took it all (Like its name). It hardly sputtered when the A/C came on.
The noise was a little more than I had anticipated so I will be researching a lightweight sound enclosure for when I might need it. I think I could use it without in most daytime applications.
I did notice that most of the sound came from the crankcase and not the muffler. It should be easy to use some foam like the type used to quiet boat engines or A/C compressors, applied directly to the engine. Has anybody tried this? I may try running the genny with a thermometer against the crankcase without the foam and then with a thermometer imbedded in the foam to see how much heat the crankcase is rejecting.
Thank you to everyone for doing the hard work here,
Mike


Mine is much quiter if I put a thick rubber pad under it, when running on concrete it was alot louder. Alot of the noise is mechanical instead of the exhaust and the rubber pad asorbs it. Mine is very quite sitting it the back of th PU on a rubber mat, not much difference than a motor home generator. National park rangers have heard it and are satisfied. I also have a Honda EU2000i but like using the Champion.

P_J1
Explorer
Explorer
This is sounding more like a partially shorted out cord now........

?
2004 Colorado 28BH-M5
2006 CTD DRW/QC 4X4
Check out my States visted map,..... WE GET AROUND, HUH?!

P_J1
Explorer
Explorer
sand crab wrote:
I have read several posts about the db ratings of generators, it would seem to me that if you put a small muffler on the generator, say like one off a small car or cycle that you could appreciably reduce the noise level of the Generator, is this possible to do, and be effective?


It has an automotive style muffler on it already, it is (literally) nicer than the one on my Honda Civic.
2004 Colorado 28BH-M5
2006 CTD DRW/QC 4X4
Check out my States visted map,..... WE GET AROUND, HUH?!

toprudder
Explorer
Explorer
The Roamer wrote:
Now I'm stuck....Do I have a******cord from Pilgrim or is it too long. Do I buy a new 25' at camping world or make my own short one? As others have said they use the long cord with no problems. I must have a bogus cord. And of course I left it up the hill so I can't check it.

As bobandcat suggested earlier, you may have other loads in the camper that you are not aware of. Try turning off all the breakers first. Then, turn one on at a time, starting with the AC.

Based on what you have said, I doubt it is the cord. I can see the AC pulling more current if there were a high resistance cord, but you also said your wife's blowdryer bogged it down. If that were the only load, the resistance in the cord would only decrease the current from the generator, since blowdryers are mostly resistive loads themselves. I suspect something else in the camper is pulling current, perhaps the converter, fridge, ???

Bob R.
Bob, Martha, and Matt.
Tucker, the Toy Poodle
'09 K-Z MXT20, '07 Chevy 2500HD Duramax

Toprudder.com

Zeppi-popout
Explorer
Explorer
The Roamer wrote:
In Champion's defense. They were very responsive on the phone. They did say if I'm not happy the would refund my money.

They suggested I try it with a short cord or a new one. I can't get to my trailer for two weeks, however I did plug in every thing I could try at home and it did fine. Then I tried a standard 10ga. 25' extension cord I have for my compressor and it did fine. The last thing I did was use the 25' 10ga and a 10' cheaply and it ran a blow dryer on high and a waffle iron (1000w) at the same time (as it should). Everything seemed fine.
Now I'm stuck....Do I have a******cord from Pilgrim or is it too long. Do I buy a new 25' at camping world or make my own short one? As others have said they use the long cord with no problems. I must have a bogus cord. And of course I left it up the hill so I can't check it.

I'll keep everybody posted as I don't want to give Champion a bad name if it's only a bad extension cord.


My cord going to the 5er pulls out about 20ft or so, (it is located at the rear drivers side of the camper. I figure it runs inside to the breaker box/inverter (which is next to the entry door) at least 10-15ft inside the 5er.

When I use the Champion generator (which is in the bed of the truck, I need to use my 20ft 30A ext cord since the 5ers cord is not long enough.

I would suggest plugging the 5er directly into the generator without the EXT cord. This might help determine if it is the cord.

It's to bad you can't find someone elses RV plug into just to see how it would react.

It also sounds like it could be the RV outlet plug on the generator.