3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Walrus127]

I'm not disappointed and I did drink more then that in beer!!!!

[rrnelsonjr]

I hate to disappoint you but your math is wrong. $2.80 per gallon and you used .25 gallon per hour then that would be 70 cents per hour. If you used one gallon in the 24 hours then that would be closer to the 11.3 cents per hour. I still think that 70 cents per hour is really good. I can drink more than 70 cents per hour in beer. :B

[Walrus127]

Well I thought you might find this interesting so I will share my experience from this past weekend with you (sorry for the long post but I think it worth telling). In June we traded our TT and got a 2008 Flagstaff 27BHSS. We went to Carolina Beach State Park this past weekend for the weekend. When we arrived on Friday I asked about using a generator (this is dry camping no hookups) they said that quiet time was 11PM to 7AM other then that it was ok. I had not tried my new TT with the Champion since we purchased it. Well I unloaded the Champion and plugged the TT in and fired it up. Let it run a minuet and turned on the power went inside and fired the AC worked great we even ran the MV and the AC at the same time. Well from Friday to Sunday afternoon I figured I ran the generator 24 hours and used 6 gallons of gas. I was just sitting here and figured that was somewhere around .25 gallons a hour. Now this is where I might have too much time on my hands. I'm not sure but I figured that if gas was $2.80 gallon this figured out that it cost me 11.3 cents a hour!!(Well rrnelsonjr pointed out that my math was wrong it should be .70 cents per hour, but this is still great in 98 degree heat:B) I know all the critics here are going to talk about the noise, but I walked over to the only campsite right beside us and they said it was not bothering them. I walked down the road each side and by the time you got to the next site you hardly could hear it. When I took a walk around the park on Sunday morning I found I was not the only one there with a generator I heard others. I can tell you I am sold on my Champion and it's performance!!!!! Oh by the way the Flagstaff was GREAT and we had a wonderful first trip!

[Oldfordman]

nvdesertrat wrote:
I had purchased the Champion 4,000/3,500 from Kragen for $299. on sale and loved it. Light enough, very quiet and starts on first pull. Hooked it up to the rig, which has a new Carrier 15K low-profile A/C. With everything else off, it fired the A/C the first time; however, after the unit cycled, it would not refire the A/C.

I reluctently took it back. On paper, it should work, so I think the particular gen was a bit weak. They did not have another in stock. I think if it was a 4,500/3,500, life would be good!

Did you have the A/C in Auto Fan Mode or in the Manual Mode. When in Auto, most units will shut off the compressor AND the fan when the set temperature has been met. When they start again they have to start a compressor AND Fan. There may be a slight residual head pressure on the compressor. Not enough to stall it but enough to cause extra current draw. I leave my fan in the manual mode. Then only the compressor cycles as temp rises/falls in the TT. This reduces the starting load slightly and helps the generator recover from the surge power requirement.

Something else to consider is Fuel and Altitude. Altitude can reduce the power output of the generator engine. The higher the altitude, the less power available. Also consider that lots of fuel today contains up to 10% Ethanol. this can cause a further reduction in available power output by as much as 6%. 4,000 Watts is only 3760 when using Fuel with 10% Ethanol. Ethanol has only about 60% the power per pound that gasoline has.

[nvdesertrat]

I had purchased the Champion 4,000/3,500 from Kragen for $299. on sale and loved it. Light enough, very quiet and starts on first pull. Hooked it up to the rig, which has a new Carrier 15K low-profile A/C. With everything else off, it fired the A/C the first time; however, after the unit cycled, it would not refire the A/C.

I reluctently took it back. On paper, it should work, so I think the particular gen was a bit weak. They did not have another in stock. I think if it was a 4,500/3,500, life would be good!

[freeatlast]

AZJIM1 wrote:
I too bought the Champion over a couple others for their Customer Service reputation . . . I have not had any problems with mine yet to test it but it is good to know that when you do need it they are there to help!

Not to belabor the point but I have had to replace my voltage regulator twice and in both cases, the good people at Champion had it mailed and in my hands in a matter of a couple of days I also mentioned to them that my fuel gauge was not working and they told me to check a couple of things but lo and behold, they sent a new one out anyway without a follow-up call from me!!...another very happy camper :B

[AZJIM1]

I too bought the Champion over a couple others for their Customer Service reputation . . . I have not had any problems with mine yet to test it but it is good to know that when you do need it they are there to help!

[racefan1965]

Champions customer service is one of the main reasons I went with their brand. Well...that and the price.lol I loaned my champion out to a friend and he placed a bunch of stuff on top and up against my generator and screwed the stickers and paint up so I emailed champion with a request to purchase a new sticker kit and Paul just sent them to me free of charge without any questions asked. If you email champion with any questions or problems, they are right there doing everything in their power to help you as soon as possible. IMO that says a lot about the company.
Rick

[mvinc01]

Thank you gramps1941, and all others whom I gleaned advise from.

Actually, I had the opportunity to exchange the unit yesterday morning. I must say that I am not only very very impressed with the customer service at Cabelas, but also with the Tech Support customer service at Champion Power Equipment. I had sent an e-mail to the tech support at CPE on Tuesday, and I had two tech support responses by yesterday evening...on the holiday! Both very positive and willing to help fast.

Anyway, the new unit runs great after initial setup and fluids. I like it very much.

Thank you to all. This is a very helpful forum!

MV

[Oldfordman]

Wgeorge11 wrote:

gramps1941 wrote:
Should be hold wire and twist. Worlds sorrest Speller and typist
Gramps1941

There's a gizmo called spell check, or the ABC icon to spell for you. It's like hunting with a shotgun, or playing horseshoes; close enough is good enough. I've got a lot of words in my head, but usually I can't arrange the letters right. Typing, like a lot of other things as you age, is a hit or miss proposition. Sometimes you can, and sometimes you wish you could. Beats the alternative ... can't.

I now blame my spelling and grammer errors on "computer bugs". I tell my wife "I typed it right, the computer screwed it up".

[Wgeorge11]

gramps1941 wrote:
Should be hold wire and twist. Worlds sorrest Speller and typist
Gramps1941

There's a gizmo called spell check, or the ABC icon to spell for you. It's like hunting with a shotgun, or playing horseshoes; close enough is good enough. I've got a lot of words in my head, but usually I can't arrange the letters right. Typing, like a lot of other things as you age, is a hit or miss proposition. Sometimes you can, and sometimes you wish you could. Beats the alternative ... can't.

[gramps1941]

Should be hold wire and twist. Worlds sorrest Speller and typist
Gramps1941

[gramps1941]

How the same problem with sparkplug connection. Had a replacement in 3 days. To replace the plastic part hohd wire an teist plastic off. The plastic has a screw molded in it . The wire center just screws in to the plastic connection on mine. Everything else worked ok.Great site for info and help.

Gramps1941

[mvinc01]

Everyone! Great advice! Thanks for your quick help. I will keep you posted, but I have a strong feeling I will be returning this unit this weekend for an exchange. Cabelas did tell me that if I have any problems with it, they will replace it at any time!

MV

[Wgeorge11]

IMO I would return the unit to Cabellos, sans the fuel, rather than go through the gyrations of pulling the flywheel and undoing the secondary which is probably hard wire to the mag pickup/condenser. I had to return two units before getting one that wasn't damaged in shipment and didn't leak fuel (as much). If you do return it, let Champion service know ASAP because if you have contacted them for replacement parts they will have them in the mail before you say boo. Matter of fact, I have a bright yellow fuel tank they sent as replacement just sitting here; they don't want it back. The Champ service tech's will jump through hoops for you.