Mar-02-2005 06:20 AM
professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.
In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.
Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.
What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.
Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.
I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.
Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.
No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.
Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.
Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.
We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.
Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.
Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.
This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......
Randy
For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.
I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:
Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)
The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.
The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.
The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.
ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.
The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.
The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...
Jul-17-2007 08:45 AM
Jul-16-2007 12:29 PM
N9WOS wrote:You can purchase the exact same generator (it's now called a "Power Pro Craft") on ebay for the total cost of $276.19 including shipping via UPS to your front door.
So I went with the prosource that is sold by biglots for $299 before tax.
Jul-16-2007 11:14 AM
Jul-16-2007 09:57 AM
Wuttevr wrote:Being successful boils down to having satisfied, and happy customers; both of which I am. In contrast, I have a week old unanswered email to Tekonsha.
Jul-16-2007 08:53 AM
Jul-16-2007 07:36 AM
Jul-16-2007 07:12 AM
Jul-16-2007 01:14 AM
N9WOS wrote:
. . .
I found this because I was looking for a cheep generator for backup power at the house, plus or minus a few times I need to run something without access to mains power.
. . .
And I do not want one with a 220V output, or fancy 120V plugs. Just a basic set of normal outlets without any fancy 120-240 switches to break or malfunction.
. . .
Good day, and thanks for everyone's help. 🙂
Jul-16-2007 12:17 AM
Jul-15-2007 11:29 PM
Jul-15-2007 07:36 PM
N9WOS wrote:
I subscribed to this forum to make this one post.
I thank the people that have contributed to this thread. It’s a large collection of info about this class of generator that has helped me make a better buying decision. I stumbled across it a few weeks ago by accident. I managed to read the thread in one day. It took me an entire Saturday.
I found this because I was looking for a cheep generator for backup power at the house, plus or minus a few times I need to run something without access to mains power.
I was originally going to purchase a champion generator. But after finding this forum thread and reading it, I found out that I needed to go with something else.
I though that all the china clones had a brush-less generator. After reading this thread, I found out that the champion has a brush type generator with an electronic AVR. Considering the fact that I have owned a brush type generator with AVR in the past, and the fact that I had it destroy equipment that was worth more than the generator was, when the AVR went out. A considerable feat considering that the generator was worth over $2000. That means that the AVR is an automatic disqualification for me.
The brush-less generators with the capacitive energy feedback circuit automatically push the rotor to magnetic saturation. That is the standard running condition. That means that the fixed output voltage is built in from the factory. There is no way it can over-volt. That is because you can’t go past core saturation. I know that the saturating core causes the depression in the peaks of the ac output wave but I have never had that damage anything. The worst it can do is mess with microwaves and electronic clocks that look for the AC peak for timing information. They see two peaks and either stop functioning or run at twice the normal speed. But I an not going to be running those two devices on the generator so that is not a problem.
And I do not want one with a 220V output, or fancy 120V plugs. Just a basic set of normal outlets without any fancy 120-240 switches to break or malfunction.
And I wanted one with banana plug binding post for the 12V output. The generators with A fancy 12 plug has always been a pain for me because you can never keep track of the original 12V pigtail.
So I went with the prosource that is sold by biglots for $299 before tax. I had seen the schematic posted by another person that bought one earlier on in this thread, and it is a brush-less generator, and it has a basic 120 outlet with banana plug binding post for the 12V output. It meets all the criteria that I am looking for.
I got the 3000W version about a week ago. No leaks or dents, no lose parts. I have already run it through it’s break-in period and it purrs like a kitten. I have a 1250W/2500W resistive load bank that I used to load test it, and it pulls the 2500W load with little to no struggle. Voltage stays around 115V at 2.5KW. You can’t hardly even tell the difference when you just put the 1250W load bank on it. No load voltage is around 125V.
The engine is made by jiang dong.
It has low oil shutdown.
It has double ball bearings in the motor. It has a ball bearing in the generator head. That means that it is a fully ball bearing driveline. The same as my $2000 2400W generator we got back in 1980.
It has a cast iron cylinder bore, Something are $2000 generator did not have.
It has overhead valves, something are $2000 generator did not have.
It runs a lot longer on 3 gallon of gas under the same load than are $2000 generator
It’s lighter than the $2000 generator.
The only thing are $2000 generator had that this one does not have is auto idle control.
I like it enough that I am thinking about getting the 2000W prosource version that they have for $199 for a general use unit for lighting and other small day to day tool use. It will be easier on gas than the 3000W version when running small loads in remote locations. That will allow me to leave the 3000W one put back for emergency use.
A side note. Some people have been questioning if the other china clones have cast iron bores. Or if all the manufactures are putting a cast iron liner in there engines. I have a comment about that. Cast iron liners in small engines can not be put in after the block is poured. It is not like diesel engines with replaceable cylinder liners. The cast iron liner has to be in place when the block is poured. Previously in this thread, people have stated that all the blocks for the china clone manufactures are made by one or two companies. So if one or two companies are known to have cast iron bores in their engines. That means that all the clones have a cast iron bore.
A final observation by me on this thread. Something that come about from reading this thread in one day. At the start of the thread, you had people telling the honda people that just because it isn’t a honda brand, doesn’t mean that it’s junk. They may not have the recognition that some of the large brands have, but they are still a good value for the money.
But it seams that at the end of the thread, some of the same people that was saying the pre-stated statements were now saying things like “Why buy X when you can have a champion for $50 more.” I find it kind of humorous myself. 😛
And everyone that comes on the board asking about buying some other china clone. They get brow beat by the CCC (champion cheering club). The first thing people do is start trying to persuade them to go with a champion. 😞
The funniest thing I seen was where someone was accusing a different brand of being a “champion clone” A clone calling someone a clone. Since when did the champion stop being a clone? Maybe the other generator looks like the champion because both the champion and the other generator are a clone of the same original generator. :S
The domination of this thread by the CCC has basically turned it into a free advertising venue for champion. something the moderators should have put a clamp on a long time ago. If you can look through the prestated bias then the thread is a good source of information.
Good day, and thanks for everyone's help. 🙂
Jul-15-2007 06:33 PM
Jul-15-2007 03:43 PM
Jul-15-2007 02:53 PM
Jul-15-2007 01:37 PM