3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[demiles]

FYI, Another happy customer with a Wen Power Pro. Installed a RV recepticle with 10Ga wire to wires at the outlet. Ran it for 36hours in last weekends heat running my AC in the Nash. Damn I was cool!!

[MrWizard]

what was the ambient air temps where you were parked and when traveling, I assume that turbulance at the back of the TT makes cross flow non-exsitent, and with the lid on top, you have locked all the heat inside

my opinion, is the box has to go when the genny is running, especally on the highway

even with the top open you are restricting air flow and heat that would normally radiate away from the engine and genny head is being contained in the box

several people have build boxes with open tops for stationary use, the professor and others have done testing, its very hard to get the box where there is good air movememt and keep the tempertures down

[Todd_Barney]

Vibration, then?

Sloshing cause the low-oil shutoff to trigger?

Do keep us posted on the resolution. I'm about to make a long trip with my Champ mounted on the tongue of my TT, and am hoping for flawless performance.

[wpoling]

MrWizard wrote:
just a guess, part failure inside the AVR and the voltage goes up, it doesn't have to short out, just go out of adjustment the wrong way,

the field current might not exceed the max current limit, with a small load and the high voltage will be too much for the device, I burned out a hand grinder that way with a honda generator , NO not a UI model a conventional model about 5 yrs ago

many appliances & electronics have transient protection for HIGH sudden spikes, but almost none seem to incorporate a fuse or breaker that will trip on high sustained voltage

I would be upset too, with (2) failures

Installed new reg. and ran fine the rest of the trip up until today on the way home. Generator quit while traveling on road, only thing running was the air conditioner

where was the generator located ? could it get enough air flow for cooling ? at least it quit instead of burning something up.

where was it locate when the AVR failed ?

excess heat will critically damage a piece of electronics that is already being warmed up by being located inside the genny head

I have the generator in a plastic tool box located on the rear hitch of my fifth wheel. When parked, I have the lid completely open, during transit it is closed. The ends are cut out 14" x 18" and a 12" fan on the "intake, starter rope" side. I suspected excessive heat to be the culprit, but Champion tech support did not feel this was a problem.

[MrWizard]

just a guess, part failure inside the AVR and the voltage goes up, it doesn't have to short out, just go out of adjustment the wrong way,

the field current might not exceed the max current limit, with a small load and the high voltage will be too much for the device, I burned out a hand grinder that way with a honda generator , NO not a UI model a conventional model about 5 yrs ago

many appliances & electronics have transient protection for HIGH sudden spikes, but almost none seem to incorporate a fuse or breaker that will trip on high sustained voltage

I would be upset too, with (2) failures

Installed new reg. and ran fine the rest of the trip up until today on the way home. Generator quit while traveling on road, only thing running was the air conditioner

where was the generator located ? could it get enough air flow for cooling ? at least it quit instead of burning something up.

where was it locate when the AVR failed ?

excess heat will critically damage a piece of electronics that is already being warmed up by being located inside the genny head

[SonicLogic]

wpoling wrote:
Just returned from 2 weeks on Assateague Island with my Champion C46540 and am not real happy with it...

Day two we lost power. Contacted tech support, found local repair dealer, paid $16 to have them overnight a new voltage reg. Day three was back up and running, day four.... television went up in smoke and yes, really filled the camper with smoke. Took what I assumed was a defective tv back to WalMart, came back to camp with new tv and proceeded to hook it up, fired up the genny and SMOKED IT ALSO!! Not one of my brightest moments! Upon further diagnosis the generator was putting out 190 volts on the 120 volt side. Another phone call and had two more voltage regulators on their way overnight, no charge this time. Installed new reg. and ran fine the rest of the trip up until today on the way home. Generator quit while traveling on road, only thing running was the air conditioner. Both 15a citcuit breakers were tripped on the control panel, reset breakers, unplugged camper cord, started generator. When I flipped the switch over to 120volt the motor bogged like it was overloaded but the volt meter didn't budge.
Tomorrow I will be calling support again, but I must say I have lost a lot of confidence in this peice of equipment.

Wpoling

professor95 wrote:
The AVR used on the Champion and WEN PowerPro is designed to limit current to the field windings. It would be darn near impossible for the AVR to fail in a completely shorted condition so a to allow current to rise to maximum and produce an excessive voltage. Actually, the opposite is more likely to happen. If the AVR develops an open due to too much current or heat, the generator voltage will drop like a rock - usually to zero. The AVRs do have a small 10 turn pot to adjust voltage output. The pot sets the threshold current to an internal 3 tab adjustable voltage regulator IC. You can increase the voltage of the genset by adjusting the pot, but the IC is prone to failure from increased current (heat) as a result. Failure opens the circuit and again, output voltage goes to zero.

[Wrace]

Well my first trip with the Champion did not go as planned, but the generator provided some much needed piece of mind, just not in the way you would think.

Went boondocking waaaaay in the outback. Long story short I was unfamiliar with the area and was following directions given to me by the landowner/host of our camping get together. I failed to fill my truck up before leaving the pavement (big shame on me), and by the time I finally drug the trailer up the last 3 painstaking miles of rough forest service road my "low fuel light was lite. I was not sure I could get back to a gas station on my way out without running out of fuel first.

Turns out I did not need to use the Champion as my batteries lasted all three days. So I pulled the fuel tank off the Champion, made a funnel out of a water bottle, stuck three zip ties down the fuel neck on the truck to keep the spring door thingy open just a tiny bit, propped the champions fuel tank up on some ammo cans on top of a folding table and let the fuel drain into the the truck. The fuel drained slow enough from the petcock as to not overflow the tiny passage the zip ties provided in propping open the spring door on the fuel filling neck of the truck.

Went back to the campfire and when I returned 3 hours later the fuel had all drained out of the champions tank giving me about 1/4 tank on the truck. Turns out I probably could have made it back out to station on what I had in the tank, but it would have been very, very close.

So there you go, the champion can be helpful in more ways than just generating power. 🙂

[P_J1]

Man, sounds like you sure got a lemon..... I'd be ticked too at this point.

Maybe they would consider just starting over and sending you a whole new unit?

[wpoling]

Just returned from 2 weeks on Assateague Island with my Champion C46540 and am not real happy with it...

Day two we lost power. Contacted tech support, found local repair dealer, paid $16 to have them overnight a new voltage reg. Day three was back up and running, day four.... television went up in smoke and yes, really filled the camper with smoke. Took what I assumed was a defective tv back to WalMart, came back to camp with new tv and proceeded to hook it up, fired up the genny and SMOKED IT ALSO!! Not one of my brightest moments! Upon further diagnosis the generator was putting out 190 volts on the 120 volt side. Another phone call and had two more voltage regulators on their way overnight, no charge this time. Installed new reg. and ran fine the rest of the trip up until today on the way home. Generator quit while traveling on road, only thing running was the air conditioner. Both 15a citcuit breakers were tripped on the control panel, reset breakers, unplugged camper cord, started generator. When I flipped the switch over to 120volt the motor bogged like it was overloaded but the volt meter didn't budge.
Tomorrow I will be calling support again, but I must say I have lost a lot of confidence in this peice of equipment.

Wpoling

[jimmyfred]

...............I've had my Champion RV model locked in the bed of my truck since purchasing it back in dec-06 . I've run it several times during breakin but never with the Air running on my 5'ver . So , I hooked it up , left the Frig. on electric and then engaged the Air unit and it didn't miss a beat . I was very pleased too say the least . No complaints here . One of the positives of this unit is that it is NOT as tall as my tailgate so it never gets in the way when the trailer is engaged consequently it stays in my truck bed 24/7 , obviously locked . ,jf

[hbski]

Well, the Champion generator came through like a, well, a champ. This past weekend I had the generator running pretty much non-stop for about 44 hours running the A/C in temps ranging from 90 degrees to 115 degrees. It ran in direct sunlight, in the shade, in high wind, in no wind and every combination there of. While at times it complained when the A/C and microwave were run together (at which point one or the other were turned off), it otherwise ran wonderfully for the duration. Only issue is that the fuel guage quit working.

[bobandcat]

2003Summit,

I suggest that you contact Champion tech service regarding your Canadian dilemma. They were very helpful to me by suppling wiring schematics for both the 46535 and the 46540 models as well as advice regarding oil viscosity for my part of the country (HOT!). Good luck!

[MrWizard]

he posted some pictures, and info it appears the the windings are tied in series and the center tap grounded in the head NOT at the terminal strip

canadas electrical code being different

he made meter readings from frame to the wires with them disconnected from the terminal strip, and was still reading continuity

[professor95]

2003 Summit wrote:
Hey guys. Speaking of other brands…

Question here for my fellow Canadians...

I have still not found a work around for my Champion 120V re-wire. I am stuck at 220V, and only half the current I want. If I *could* buy the RV version I would, but I don't think it's available in my market.

My Canadian question is, does anyone know of any other Canadian available brand in the 3000W range that "can" be re-wired for 120V only (to maximizing current) and a source for it? Where are these other Chinese clones being sold? The only other I have found is P3Power from Peavey mart, but they are $599.00, and I got my champion from Costco for only $330. Any other ideas guys?

Thanks all.

I don't understand. Is it you do not want to rewire your Champion or do you feel that it is not possible?

I have yet to see one that cannot simply be rewired for full wattage at 120 volts. Let's look at this beast closer.

[MrWizard]

This is in all probability not an issue to many Americans judging from what I see at our local trash "transfer station". Nancy often accuses me of bringing more stuff home than I take to dispose of. Recently my booty was a very nice self propelled Craftsman lawn mower in need of a new drive belt to the front wheels. A good looking Hoover vacuum cleaner also missing a drive belt to the rotating floor brush (easier to throw it away and buy a new one than fix the old one). Ironically, I did not need another lawn mower or vacuum cleaner - I have this fix-it mentality (obsession?). When I buy something I want reasonable assurance I can get parts as needed to keep it running (long after most folks would throw it away).

ME too, but we full time and i don't have a garage or barn / shed to store things in, BUT i'm always picking up discarded camping chairs,tables, etc.. from campsites and parks
repairing them, ( replace some rivets or missing screws ) and then giving them way, got us a nice igloo ice chest by replacing the hinges