3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[racefan1965]

I love this thread! Now I'm learning how to set the valve clearances on small engines. Thanks for the valve clearances numbers professor. How do I know which valve is which? Is the exhaust valve the one closest to the exhaust side? When I look at the picture you showed of the valves still in the head I see a muffler on the left side which is what makes me think the exhaust valve is closest to the muffler. Correct me if I'm wrong please.

TKMJ, It sure sounds like the company your dealing with has some problems with their generators. Champion owns their own manufacturing plant in china so as far as I know, theirs aren't built by the same company. I was wrong once so don't quote me though :w I wish I had some information that helped or even consoled you a little but all I can keep thinking is that I am glad I didn't buy a wildfire brand.:w :w :w Sorry for that but I just had to say what I was thinking.

Rick

[TKMJ]

Results: Wildfire 3500 genset

After a few phone calls to the Wildfire factory, It was agreed upon that I would receive a new genset from the factory. As a token of good faith on Wildfire's part, they would replace the 3000w genset with a 5500w unit. It sounded great to me. I could use a bigger genset for stuff out back like running bigger power tools and such. With the 5500w I could run the coach complete with A/C as well. So It was a great deal to me.

Well, as agree the Wildfire people would deliver it to my door at there cost as well and would pick up the bad genset. No shipping costs.

Upon testing the new genset just unloaded off the truck, this is what I got. Neutral-ground =120, hot-neutral=145 volts on receptacle one. Neutral-ground=0 volts on receptacle 2 hot-neutral 167 volts on receptacle 2.

I decided to put a load on the genset by plugging my motorhome into it with the A/C running. OK I should have 120 volts @ about 16 amps with the A/C and the battery charger running. I got 163 volts @ 12 amps. All tests were done in front of the Wildfire factory rep. He said the genset was checked at the factory and ran perfectly this afternoon. He was shocked to see the genset running over 150 volts with a load. I also checked for voltage between the frame of the coach and earth ground. I got a fat zero. Right where it is suppose to be so it appears that this genset was wired correctly but the regulator was bad.


Yep, it appears that the voltage regulator went bad between the factory and my house. A two hour drive without the genset running sitting in the back of a pickup truck. RIGHT!!! SURE!!!!! WOW!!!! HOW CAN THAT HAPPEN????? MUST HAVE BEEN THE RAIN STORM!!! YEP THAT'S IT! The rainstorm.

Am I doing something wrong or is there a bad lot of gensets out there and I got 3 in a row. Am I expecting too much out of a Chinese genset? All I wanted was 120 volts that was somewhat stable. I could understand 135 volts or so without a load, but to watch the genset run wild on the first try? I don't think so.

[Harrygoodwrench]

Coyote Sport 13 wrote:
I don't think it's the meter. This thing is LOUD. I definitly have the fan rattle as I can press my hand against the case and it will stop it. I think the silicone mod will fix that. I'm not giving up on it yet. I can't see trying to sell it right away at a loss and we will only need it about 10 times a year so the Yamaha/Honda did not seem practical. I have an old Honda 650 (?) genset and it is really quiet. Of course it only puts out about 5 amps.

I say this respectively.
It is obvious you are dissatisfied. You should sell, even at a loss, the unit immediately.
It is all about needs and expectations and this unit doesn't fit yours.
I own two china gensets and couldn't be happier, but my needs/expectations are obviously different.

[Coyote_Sport_13]

I don't think it's the meter. This thing is LOUD. I definitly have the fan rattle as I can press my hand against the case and it will stop it. I think the silicone mod will fix that. I'm not giving up on it yet. I can't see trying to sell it right away at a loss and we will only need it about 10 times a year so the Yamaha/Honda did not seem practical. I have an old Honda 650 (?) genset and it is really quiet. Of course it only puts out about 5 amps.

[Wuttevr]

If I were a betting man, which I am, I'd bet the farm on one of the following: 1)There is something wrong with your meter. 2) There is something wrong with your generator. 3) Or there is something wrong with your testing environment. I, and if not mistaken, several others have come very close to the published 68 db(a) reading with that very same meter. While working on my noise abatement my baseline reading was 70 db(a) with it sitting on my driveway.

FWIW

[Coyote_Sport_13]

I just purchased a Champion C46540 from Kragen Auto Parts yesterday for $299. I have a sound (decibel) meter from Radio Shack that I used to set up my stereo surround sound system so I took some readings of the generator. You can look at the meter here http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103667&cp=&sr=1&origkw=sound+meter&kw=sound+m... . It is accurate to within two decibels per the manufacturer and is recommended on several stereophile sites as being tested and proven against much more expensive meters. I set the meter to "slow response" which means it takes a reading every 0.5 sec and used the "A weighting" setting that is used for non musical sounds. I additionally used time weighted setting that averages the sound over a period of time. I set this for 10 seconds. I took all readings 20 feet away and the generator was out in the open with nothing with in say 30 yards to bounce any sound off of. Now that you got all that here is what I found... The thing is LOUD. Granted it is brand new but I can't imagine any real improvement over time. I let it run for 5 minutes before measurements began. I first tested without the included spark arrestor installed and averaged 75 decibels. With the spark arrestor in the average was 73 decibels. I could not in good conscience run this thing as is in a campground. I camp in Forest Service campgrounds and I can't imagine a tenter or an rv'r not being rather upset at the noise level. I am going to do the silicone behind the fan mod, remeasure and post results. I also have plans for an enclosure with a fan and will move the AVR outside the case. I'll take decibel measurements with all this and post back over the next month or so. Interesting that Champion lists the decibel level at 68.

[kjswensen]

Good analogy LaneHog...
i can see it now, my wife on top of the 5er with paddles yelling clear as i turn on the genny.... makes me laugh...

thanks guys. this sounds like a pretty simple solution for those having issues running AC units.

[lane_hog]

kjswensen wrote:

I would put a hardstart cap kit in the A/C unit and call it good.

If i could ask for a little bit of clarification as to what the hardstart cap actually does?

Have you ever watched ER and seen the docs use the "paddles" to jumpstart someone's heart?...

Same concept without all the drama. The capacitor soaks up power to help jump start the compressor.

[Oldfordman]

racefan1965 wrote:
Thanks professor. That shows me the where and what but I'm still concerned with how. Doesn't one need to pull the start rope to turn the engine to a set point like TDC (top dead center)? If so, how do I know where TDC is?
Rick

Having tuned motorcycles for years I offer you one of my tips.

First, remove the spark plug. Place your finger over the hole and SLOWLY pull the start rope. When the pressure starts to blow your finger off the hole (this is the beginning of the compression stroke), remove the finger. Shine a light in the hole or insert a small wooden dowel. Pull the rope a little and watch the piston come up to TDC, stopping when it just starts to go back. (This can be a lot easier to do if you remove the recoil start assy so you can just turn the flywheel by hand.) This is TDC at the top of the Compression Stroke and you are ready to adjust the valve lash. It is best to adjust on the top of the Compression Stroke. Depending on cam design, timing, and overlap, the valve lash may not be accurate when using the top of the exhaust stroke.

The valve lash was posted several dozen pages ago in this thread. Maybe we can get the administrator to start a "sticky" for Champion Generator Specs?

[Wgeorge11]

kjswensen wrote:

I would put a hardstart cap kit in the A/C unit and call it good.

Thanks everyone, all very good ideas which i will "test" in a couple weeks when we go out again....

If i could ask for a little bit of clarification as to what the hardstart cap actually does?

Think of it as a shot of electric steroids giving your a/c that extra boost it needs on startup when current demands are the greatest. Like when peddling up a long mountain, swinging a bat, or making that first down.

[kjswensen]

I would put a hardstart cap kit in the A/C unit and call it good.

Thanks everyone, all very good ideas which i will "test" in a couple weeks when we go out again....

If i could ask for a little bit of clarification as to what the hardstart cap actually does?

[professor95]

reacefan1965 wrote:
Thanks professor. That shows me the where and what but I'm still concerned with how. Doesn't one need to pull the start rope to turn the engine to a set point like TDC (top dead center)? If so, how do I know where TDC is? Sorry for all the confusion and questions but I'm at about 70 to 80 hours now and feel I might want to check my valve clearance soon to possibly help prevent any future problems.

I looked it up this morning.

Intake is .005 - .007 in.
Exhaust is .007 to .009 in.

Both are with engine COLD.

Use a flat feeler gauge to measure rocker to valve stem clearance.

Yes, settings are made at TDC. I have a tool that goes in the spark plug hole with a moveable plastic rod in the center. As the piston comes up, it pushes the rod up. Maximum extension of the rod is TDC. Of course, you need to be sure the TDC found using this tool is on the compression stroke and not exhaust, meaning BOTH valves should be closed. This will be indicated by rocker clearance on both the intake and exhaust valves. I picked the tool up up years ago when my boys were into go carts.

Some folks use a paper or plastic drinking straw in the spark plug hole as a TDC indicator. Others inject light oil (WD40, kerosene, etc.) into the cylinder as it starts to reach TDC. When all the oil that can be pushed out occurs and it starts to suck back in again you have TDC.

Perhaps the simplest way to find TDC is to remove the spark plug and place a finger over the plug hole. Rotate the engine until you feel pressure start to build, continue slowly until suction occurs and then back up a hair to TDC.

BTW, on a generator without access to the crankshaft end it is easier if you remove the recoil starter shroud so that you may hand turn the flywheel. The recoil starter rope method can be less precise.

I don't claim to be a small engine mechanic. Someone with more experience may have a better method to share.

Again, 100 hours seems to be the magic number for adjustment. New engines should probably be checked at the 50 hr. interval.

On another note, the CPE part numbers I show for the forged rocker assembly is ST168F-1040100 (2007). The pivot bolt is ST168F-1040027 (C465). CPE will need to quote you the price if you decide to upgrade a 2006 or older engine. 1-877-338-0999 is the number.

[toprudder]

Has anyone tried running E10 fuel when operating at high altitude? If so, what was the result?

Has anyone noticed any difference between straight gasoline and E10?

[Wuttevr]

Flapdoodle............

Not your post. I have every assurance that you got that information from a credible source. However, it is riddled with legal ease for the sole purpose of protecting rear-ends.

Let's take a step back for a second. I am no gear head, but I know for a fact that rejetting carburetors for higher altitude operation isn't exactly rocket science. Frankly, it is commonplace around here for everything from lawn mowers to snowmobiles to chain saws. Perhaps CPE has taken some steps to make it more difficult. If Mr. Professor is correct in that even the carb is cloned Honda, higher altitude jets shouldn't be too difficult to find.

I guess that somewhat explains why my email inquiry to CPE about the availability of higher altitude jets went unanswered.

Hmmm.

[fellow_traveler]

For those who have had questions about the possibility of high altitude adjustment on the Champion generators, I was able to obtain the following information.

When considering tampering with the limiter cap over a screw adjustment: This adjustment affects only the air bypass valve and will not give hardly any noticeable change in the mixture for altitude change. Also making adjustments on the carburetor that are sealed are illegal inside California and should not considered to make a local business play with it and chance a Federal EPA violation and a $10000 fine to go with it. There are after market kits with disclaimers that those with an altitude problem can use provided they do their own installation. Best thing to do is check with the manufacturer for any ideas to assist you of legal adjustments that can be made. Don't expect a magic wand for altitude issues until the manufacturers start using fuel injection and micro computers to meter the exact amounts of fuel and air as the altitude changes. This is coming soon to a manufacture in the US, but expect to pay a premium on any engine using this technology.