3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Old___Slow]

LittleBill wrote:

Old & Slow wrote:

LittleBill wrote:
but i have saved myself i knew i had seen it before. do a search for

"RA10-ENG-BOX"

or go to

https://www.directwholesale.net/secure/

accessories tab and its the 4th product over

this will do what you need, period, and is the same model of rf starter used in those 80+ dollar starter kits,

also can run other stuff since its a 4 channel receiver/transmitter, you should only need 2 channels one latched and one momentary, and old and slow, you would just attach at the key, no need to remove it. everything would be wired in parallel

you can use the other channels to fire a door solenoid to manually move the choke, or fire up a fuel pump

I found the $55.00 unit. How amazing. Just can't believe it might be so KISS.........what unit do you suggest for the choke? Has anyone used this setup with a Electric Start genny?:@

part 742 on the same accessories page, now its going to either be full open or full close and might need some ingenuity to link it to the choke lever, but thats the fun right? unless someone has a link to a electronic choke that can be fitted.

i personally don't own an electric start genny, not sure how hard to connect the linkage up will be, but looking at my elim 3000 i could do it fairly easy

Little Bill;

I ordered part 742 for a fun thing to try. Cheaper that the choke cable I was going to order. Question. What type switch will be neccessary?

Thanks for the help and links.

Floyd

Floyd

[COnative]

You all may have seen this already. If not, check out the NEW Products!
Champion Link (CPE)

[Old___Slow]

professor95 wrote:
To Old & Slow:

Some answers, please.

1. Do you still intend to use an electric or other fuel pump for the genset or will you gravity feed fuel to the carburator?

2. Is a wireless remote control what you must have, or is a two station wired control acceptable?

3. Where is your $$$$ cap - how much are you willing to spend to accomplish your vision?

4. Just how far away from a "simple job" are you prepared to go to get what ever your vision may be?


Step 1 - Understand the problem.
Step 2 - Make a plan.
Step 3 - Carry out the plan.
Step 4 - Look back, evaluate and - if needed - go back to step 1.

Personally, if I am to provide any other assistance or advise, I need to know just where your project is going. Originally, I thought I did, but now I am totally confused. I get the impression from MrWizard's comments that he may also be on the same page I am.

I am anxious to help you if I can. But, I am not ready to come up with designs for an unknown tent camper in who-knows-where Texas.

Once again sorry, Professor95

[Old___Slow]

Professor95:

Some answers,

#1 I have a Facet POSI-FLO EFP-3 Electric fuel pump. My intent was to use this pump for the Champion C46540 installed in my factory genset compartment of my MH. In trial it was found to be problematic and not giving a consistent fuel supply attached in the fuel line used by the old OEM genset. However, using a container no more than one foot below the fuel pump operation of the genny was exceptable. Another post stated this fuel pump needs a 12v relay. The relay is to get the 12v supply from the oil pressure switch giving a safety factor if the genny stopped operating.. A momentary switch was to be wired into the system to prime just before the genny supplied the necessary 12v. to operate the fuel pump. I have a 12v supply in the compartment. This is not what I want. I need a fuel pump capable to draw fuel from the MH main tank. So, reading MrWizard's post I was made aware of the fact I do have a really good fuel supply with the 4 gallon tank for the Champion which I have relocated to a adjoining compartment, that works vary well and maybe it's just plain silly to continue my quest for a fuel pump. MrWizard always has great logic in his comments.

2. In my desire for a wireless remote, for the present time I am going to settle for wired remote used only to start/stop with a choke cable. If and when I may be blessed with a wireless remote, the need would be to start/stop the genny and this will call for a choke setup with the electronic device being a number one desire, like the one you show in your last retro, that is really neat. I thought you might offer help here.

3. The $$$$ cap for the electronic remote $75 +- -being the best for my shallow pockets.

4. As a novice and student, best hope, not far from a simple wiring install.

I did stray once again from A PERSONAL need and was thinking of all those other folks I noticed on my last outing. Yes, perhaps they should not have been included in a comment. They may have no desire for a genny. Please forgive my waywardness. I promise to do better.

Floyd

[professor95]

To Old & Slow:

Some answers, please.

1. Do you still intend to use an electric or other fuel pump for the genset or will you gravity feed fuel to the carburator?

2. Is a wireless remote control what you must have, or is a two station wired control acceptable?

3. Where is your $$$$ cap - how much are you willing to spend to accomplish your vision?

4. Just how far away from a "simple job" are you prepared to go to get what ever your vision may be?


Step 1 - Understand the problem.
Step 2 - Make a plan.
Step 3 - Carry out the plan.
Step 4 - Look back, evaluate and - if needed - go back to step 1.

Personally, if I am to provide any other assistance or advise, I need to know just where your project is going. Originally, I thought I did, but now I am totally confused. I get the impression from MrWizard's comments that he may also be on the same page I am.

I am anxious to help you if I can. But, I am not ready to come up with designs for an unknown tent camper in who-knows-where Texas.

[skyzoomer]

professor95 wrote:
I personally have serious concerns with the electric fuel pump. Not so much as making it work, but making it work safely.

Concern #1 is too much fuel pressure overpowering the needle in the float bowl and causing excess gasoline to spill out the vent hole. .....snip.....
Concern #2 is control of the electric pump – provided we find one that will work. We cannot just turn it on and leave it on. We need a way to control the pump so that it will provide initial pressure when we want to start the engine and then transfer control to something that will only allow the pump to run when the engine is running. Without this failsafe, if the engine were just cut off, the pump would still be supplying gasoline. If this gas was leaking, we could have a dangerous situation. .....snip.....
Watcyha think?

With your concerns in mind plus these concerns:
#3 - locating fuel tank "outside" a home-made sound enclosure.
#4 - not enough room for the stock tank to fit "above" the carburetor for gravity feed.

I read a post (not sure if in this humongus thread or somewhere else) relating to the following:

Why not build a small fuel tank that can fit above the sound enclosure that has a return fuel line back to the source fuel tank. The outlet for this return fuel line would be near the top of the tank. Gravity feed fuel to the carburetor. Then any fuel pump can be used without concern for over powering the needle valve or auto fuel shut off for safety reasons. Any excess fuel would just return back to the source tank.

EDIT: While reading this after posting it, I think I answered my own question. The problem would be how to get a return line back into the source tank. Forget this post .... :S

Skyzoomer

[Old___Slow]

MrWizard wrote:
even with A/C the gensets will run 9-10 hrs on one tank, charging batteries and watching TV, it's possible to get 15-20hrs from one tank of gas

quite frankly I see NO real need to have a full time pump system

a simple on off refuel of the OEM or remote mounted tank is all that is needed and much safer

fill the tank in the morning. or the evening and your good for the whole day or even several days

even if enclosed and Running the A/C while driving down the road, you can get 9 or 10 hrs before refueling.

remote start ? well if it is pouring down rain and you want to run the coffee maker. that would be nice..

but if i really thought a remote start & constant use with out refill was a necessity, i would find a way to buy a build-in to replace my champion

I like my champion for the value and USE it offers for the price, building it in and making it quieter is something to consider but, fuel pumps for constant useage offer more chance for problems than the inconvience of occasionaly refilling the tank

Mr Wizard;

I have been thinking about this post for several days. The Logic used above kinda makes my doings rather silly. You always have great logic. However, I am lost and gone forever with the idea for the remote control. Can't help it. Don't you think someone here in Texas using the Portable genny for A/C or other needs (they use a A/C placed on the ground in tents here) would like to shut the genny down at bed time without running out in there jammies or like you say, in the rain. Folks now start their cars by remote in winter to warm the seats and defrost the windows. The point made concerning fuel supply is right on the money. Guess the issue of using a low pressure fuel pump to run genny needs time to cool, at least until Professor pulls one out of his pocket for our use. Thanks for all your posts.

Floyd

[Old___Slow]

[Edit-redact

[LittleBill]

my link has that item for 24 bucks less, but the issue with the car starter is the timeout period on remote car starters which shuts the unit down prematurely my link gets the job done, cheaper then the same kits on generator sites

also if you had read my post earlier i already provided a workaround, you would use the voltage sensing instead of tach sense, so the over rev would disappear from being an issue, but the cost difference is nothing the other unit is much better suited

[Wuttevr]

*.*

[Old___Slow]

LittleBill;

The unless someone has a Electronic choke easy to fit, part. Maybe Professor95 has one in his zipped up pocket. He knows the address of the US patent office! What all else is he holding out telling us about?:W

Floyd
O&S

I will now give way to OP and do a Wgeorge 5 minute thing.:B

[LittleBill]

Old & Slow wrote:

LittleBill wrote:
but i have saved myself i knew i had seen it before. do a search for

"RA10-ENG-BOX"

or go to

https://www.directwholesale.net/secure/

accessories tab and its the 4th product over

this will do what you need, period, and is the same model of rf starter used in those 80+ dollar starter kits,

also can run other stuff since its a 4 channel receiver/transmitter, you should only need 2 channels one latched and one momentary, and old and slow, you would just attach at the key, no need to remove it. everything would be wired in parallel

you can use the other channels to fire a door solenoid to manually move the choke, or fire up a fuel pump

I found the $55.00 unit. How amazing. Just can't believe it might be so KISS.........what unit do you suggest for the choke? Has anyone used this setup with a Electric Start genny?:@

part 742 on the same accessories page, now its going to either be full open or full close and might need some ingenuity to link it to the choke lever, but thats the fun right? unless someone has a link to a electronic choke that can be fitted.

i personally don't own an electric start genny, not sure how hard to connect the linkage up will be, but looking at my elim 3000 i could do it fairly easy

[Old___Slow]

LittleBill wrote:
but i have saved myself i knew i had seen it before. do a search for

"RA10-ENG-BOX"

or go to

https://www.directwholesale.net/secure/

accessories tab and its the 4th product over

this will do what you need, period, and is the same model of rf starter used in those 80+ dollar starter kits,

also can run other stuff since its a 4 channel receiver/transmitter, you should only need 2 channels one latched and one momentary, and old and slow, you would just attach at the key, no need to remove it. everything would be wired in parallel

you can use the other channels to fire a door solenoid to manually move the choke, or fire up a fuel pump

I found the $55.00 unit. How amazing. Just can't believe it might be so KISS.........what unit do you suggest for the choke? Has anyone used this setup with a Electric Start genny?:@

[LittleBill]

but i have saved myself i knew i had seen it before. do a search for

"RA10-ENG-BOX"

or go to

https://www.directwholesale.net/secure/

accessories tab and its the 4th product over

this will do what you need, period, and is the same model of rf starter used in those 80+ dollar starter kits,

also can run other stuff since its a 4 channel receiver/transmitter, you should only need 2 channels one latched and one momentary, and old and slow, you would just attach at the key, no need to remove it. everything would be wired in parallel

you can use the other channels to fire a door solenoid to manually move the choke, or fire up a fuel pump

[LittleBill]

Old & Slow wrote:

LittleBill wrote:

toprudder wrote:

professor95 wrote:
While the momentary contact kill switch addition would be a whole lot simpler than a relay, one would not be able to lock the ignition so that it could not be manually started by an unauthorized person. Perhaps that is not a major issue to O&S. Like you suggested, I would just use the momentary contact switch in two locations as a kill switch.

Yeah, that is the only downside I can think of.

We do need to give him additional help for a safe circuit to run the add on electric fuel pump. When he wants to start the engine, the pump will need to cut on for a few seconds to prime the carburator, then cut off. Once the generator is running it can pull in a 110 VAC relay to once again run the fuel pump. If the engine dies, 110 is gone, the relay opens and the pump cuts off.

I am thinking a simple one shot timer with a 555 IC may be the best approach, but it certainly is not the only one. What do you think, Bob?

Again, I think about how some of the Onans work. There are some that are primed by holding down the "stop" button (or rocker switch) for a few seconds before pressing the start button. No reason that could not be done. Or just have a separate button for prime. I believe in KISS, no need to have an electronic circuit in this case. The 12v supply in an RV, auto, or in this case a generator, is a pretty harsh environment, lots of spikes, sags, surges, fast transients, etc, that could blow an IC without some protection. Switches and relays are pretty immune. JMHO.

Bob R.

if your trying to go cheap i understand, but a cheap remote car starter from walmart (50bucks) can do EVERYTHING you need in turning on pumps and everything from the get go and is design to run on 12v and 12v relays, and a heck of alot more reliable. this can easily be done in 15 minutes on a electric start generator. and can be all attached right at the key start, no need to modify any of the electrical harness. the choke it would not work with, but i have seen a door opener solenoid hooked to manual choke lever to go from full open to full close with a 4 channel remote. it can be done quite easily

Is there a consensus of opinion on the use of this Walmart type remote car starter as a add-on. If all the other goodies can work off this type, the question is, will it work in parallel with the key start already one the Electric start units. Something tells me the key switch on the genny would need to be left in the on position, for each to be independent of the other. Just wire and install inside the MH. No relay needed until some other goddie is needed. I have ordered a Add-on (same type as OEM)key start assy. to use with my genny, as a remote. Others that might want to add a remote start/stop to their gensets might want to go with the idea from LittleBill. Professor states as I understand, no harm to just leave each switch in the on position. Maybe I'm lost as a goose in fog.


After thought;

What we need is a plug-in remote, good for all, tent campers and RV folks.

the cheap starter won't work, it has a shutdown built into it after 15 minutes it will kill the circuit, more expensive units will do it, but defeats the purpose of a cheap remote start feature