3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Old___Slow]

Prof95:

The Ultra-Gen 3500 they are selling @ $459 states it is 120/240v Not a 120v only you state above. The New model 3500 by Ultra-Gen must then be the same as the C46540:S So there is nothing New coming with the BLUE Ultra-Gen Powerhouse Generators? Just the price.

[professor95]

HedoTravelers wrote:
So the C46540 is of the old design? For the money, I don't think I can find a better value. On a disheartening note, when I called my local Tractor Supply (more home & garden really), they first said the computer showed one in stock. I kindly asked the clerk to physically check to see if it was there. Turns out that the one there was actually a return for a defect. Hearing this didn't build my confidence any I'll tell ya. They are going to call me when the next available unit comes in.

I hate to call it the "old" design. Actually, it is more of a "different" design. The C46540 will deliver 240 volts for those who need such - like to run a well pump in a power outage. In the 240 volt mode all of the windings are in series. In the 120 volt mode, the windings are switched to parallel and the current capacity of each winding is added - thus full current can be obtained from a single outlet.

The 3500, 3500E, 40008, 40008E and CSA models of similar design will NOT produce 240 volts. These units are 120 volt out only. Thus, the windings in the genhead can be arranged differently. This "different" arrangement provides a cleaner waveform with less harmonic distortion than the dual voltage genheads. Of course, the trade off is the loss of 240, which is useless for a RV with a 30 amp connection.

Again, do not hesitate to purchase a C46540 just because there is a different design. I doubt that you will ever note the difference between the two models for RV use.

As for the defect in the one at Tractor Supply, at least they took the genset back. "Defects" could be most anything. My 40008 arrived with a "defect". The fuel petcock had been bent (in transit?) and cracked the fuel tank. Champion promptly replaced both via Fed-X 2nd day air with just a phone call. This is what builds confidence with me - service after the sale that is prompt and comprehensive. Now, I wonder who I would call for service support for my JD built ELM3000? It is similar to my Champ, but sits in the barn as a spare/loaner genset.

[HedoTravelers]

So the C46540 is of the old design? For the money, I don't think I can find a better value. On a disheartening note, when I called my local Tractor Supply (more home & garden really), they first said the computer showed one in stock. I kindly asked the clerk to physically check to see if it was there. Turns out that the one there was actually a return for a defect. Hearing this didn't build my confidence any I'll tell ya. They are going to call me when the next available unit comes in.

[Old___Slow]

Prof95:

Wow, thanks for getting the fly out of the ointment. After seeing that TL ad for the NEW Ultra-Gen Powerhouse Generators (3500e)and a visit to Ultra-fib web site and reading Champion manual about voltage fluctuation and the need for voltage suppressors UL 1449 I was almost ready to retire my little Yellow and Black beauty. The current price for the current C46540 @ TS looks good.


Floyd

[professor95]

HedoTravelers wrote:
So they have incorporated an electronic safety circuit that the others don't have?
They mention running your laptop on it.
I am about to buy the C46540 from Tractor Supply for $289. We will be running a laptop in the trailer, should I wait and buy the new model? Is it worth the extra money? I really don't want the electric start as we will not use it a lot, and I my experience with small batteries like that is they don't last long. Is there another option for safe use of laptops, LCD HDTV's, etc. with the cheaper Champions? I don't want to be replacing expensive electronics because I wanted to save some money on the genny cost. I will be using this for the few occasions when we dry camp, and the occasional power outage at the house.
Just when I felt the C46540 was a good all around choice for me,
and now they come up with more choices!

Uh, I think you have just become the victim of slick advertising. There is no "new" circuit. The ad simply says, "Laptop/Computer Safe". As far as I know, Champions have been "Laptop/Computer Safe" since we started banging them around on this forum. Now, the current line of Champion 120 volt only models, including the 40008 and 3500E introduced a "different" genhead that has a cleaner sine wave and less THD. The Home Depot model also has this genhead as the new CSA models. I honestly can't tell you how the genhead is different since I have not dissected one. But, I have measured one (40008) on a scope and the signal is a whole lot cleaner.

The baloon in the TL ad that says, "Electronic Circuit Protection" refers to the AVR and circuit breakers. Again, nothing new, they have been there all along.

That said, the older and current dual voltage Champs like the C46540 will do an admirable and safe job of powering laptop computers using switching power supplies. Look at the label on your laptop power supply - if it is rated for 50 to 60 Hz with a voltage range of 100 VAC to 240 VAC with no adapters it is pretty well bullet proof from a voltage and frequency input standpoint.

[HedoTravelers]

So they have incorporated an electronic safety circuit that the others don't have?
They mention running your laptop on it.
I am about to buy the C46540 from Tractor Supply for $289. We will be running a laptop in the trailer, should I wait and buy the new model? Is it worth the extra money? I really don't want the electric start as we will not use it a lot, and I my experience with small batteries like that is they don't last long. Is there another option for safe use of laptops, LCD HDTV's, etc. with the cheaper Champions? I don't want to be replacing expensive electronics because I wanted to save some money on the genny cost. I will be using this for the few occasions when we dry camp, and the occasional power outage at the house.
Just when I felt the C46540 was a good all around choice for me,
and now they come up with more choices!

[Old___Slow]

professor95 wrote:

O&S wrote:
Ultra-Gen

Something is way strange. I just tried to Email Ultra-Fab and the Email was non delivered. Maybe this is one of those PALLET Load dealers and buyer beware. Or they need to get there house in order. First the Trailer Life ad and now no Ultra-Gen generators, period. Are they going to be rebranded Champion, a new line or a Chonda CLONE? or none of the above

Floyd, you are not as slow as you think you are. Your assumptions are way too fast for what we know.

The newly advertised Ultra-Gen is a Champion built unit. It is not an off brand pallet load of Chinese imports.

Ultra-Fab apparently put the ad in TL early to generate interest. Advertising vapor-ware is nothing new (ask Microsoft).

Models change. Just a different color of paint or new instrumentation is reason enough to create a new model number.

Ultra Fab is a buyer, dealer, distributor. Just as every Home Depot does not carry the Champion generator, every RV dealer in the Ultra-Fab network will not carry the Champion product line.

If you go to the Ultra-Fab web site (www.ultra-fab.com) you will see the familiar yellow Champion gensets. The one we know as the 40008 is listed there as a 3500e - nothing new about that. Bet that the color will change to blue as supplies are shipped to Ultra-fab.

Look at the glass as half full rather than almost empty. Good things will come from all of this.

Prof95:

I went to the web site (www.ultra-fab.com) and see all the new Champions in Yellow and black. This is exciting. They show a 3500e with all that new electronic stuff I guess for overvoltage problems and make it safe for laptops and computers. That is truly great. When I put in my zip code to find a dealer. No deal. Strange as fiction. Ok, no BLUE MAX Ultra-gens yet but good ol Yellow and black. Now where do we find one to take a look at, they must have been overly optimistic about offering a New Line of Blue Ultra-Gen Powerhouse Generators but at least they have all the Yellow and black units. But the old C46540 is now a Model 3500 @ $459:S

[pitstop]

MFinCA- thanks, that manual is better than the one I received.

Ran it for an hour, changed oil and everything is fine. Seems to be a good choice.

The unit I bought from Partsamerica.com did not have the wheel set. Does anyone know where I can purchase the cover and wheels? Cabella's has the wheels, but not the cover.

[Old___Slow]

Redact

[Old___Slow]

MFinCA wrote:

pitstop wrote:
I went with the Champion C46540. UPS delivered to my house this afternoon and just opened the box.

This is my first generator so is there anything I should look for or do in breaking in this unit. The manual is pretty limited.
Thanks

This manual is better than the one I got with mine originally:

Champion Manual

All I did was put oil and gas in mine and started it up. I ran it for a few minutes and then plugged the TT into it. Ran the heater, then the AC. While running the AC, I put a glass of water in the microwave and heated it up--no problems. Then I added another load to it by plugging in the wife's hairdryer, so I had 3 items running.

It performed perfectly.

I've used mine for RVing at NASCAR races, BBQ contests, and a couple of picnic outings. Last week I fired it up after letting it sit for about 2 months. It started after 2 pulls and ran great.

I too can say the C46540 has preformed perfectly. I did just click on the link to the Manual. Wow, if you read all the Caution/Danger listings, it will scare the living day lights out of you and you will never use the little beauty. Makes me wonder how I have survived and live to hit the keys today.

I have a question. Maybe MrWizard or Prof95 can tell us.

The manual states, "Voltage fluctuation may impair sensitive electronic equipment....Install UL 1449-CSA surge suppressors" Just exactly where do you buy that item and what is the cost:h

On another note:

Looking for my lost shaker of salt, the flux capacitor (capstator?)and the New Ultra-Gen 3500 with all that new electronic stuff.:R

[MrWizard]

pitstop wrote:

I went with the Champion C46540. UPS delivered to my house this afternoon and just opened the box.

This is my first generator so is there anything I should look for or do in breaking in this unit. The manual is pretty limited.
Thanks

give it a couple of hours of runtime, and change the oil, to get rid of loose metal particales

then your good to go.

the manual says 5 hrs, which is what i did, but many users reported running less, just to wash out the engine block

[MFinCA]

pitstop wrote:
I went with the Champion C46540. UPS delivered to my house this afternoon and just opened the box.

This is my first generator so is there anything I should look for or do in breaking in this unit. The manual is pretty limited.
Thanks

This manual is better than the one I got with mine originally:

Champion Manual

All I did was put oil and gas in mine and started it up. I ran it for a few minutes and then plugged the TT into it. Ran the heater, then the AC. While running the AC, I put a glass of water in the microwave and heated it up--no problems. Then I added another load to it by plugging in the wife's hairdryer, so I had 3 items running.

It performed perfectly.

I've used mine for RVing at NASCAR races, BBQ contests, and a couple of picnic outings. Last week I fired it up after letting it sit for about 2 months. It started after 2 pulls and ran great.

[Old___Slow]

Prof95:

Well those answers are as smooooth as silk. But the email to these folks was undelivered. Anyway, guess vapor-ware is better than 'smoke and mirrors' and I don't want a BLUE MAX Champion.

[professor95]

O&S wrote:
Ultra-Gen

Something is way strange. I just tried to Email Ultra-Fab and the Email was non delivered. Maybe this is one of those PALLET Load dealers and buyer beware. Or they need to get there house in order. First the Trailer Life ad and now no Ultra-Gen generators, period. Are they going to be rebranded Champion, a new line or a Chonda CLONE? or none of the above

Floyd, you are not as slow as you think you are. Your assumptions are way too fast for what we know.

The newly advertised Ultra-Gen is a Champion built unit. It is not an off brand pallet load of Chinese imports.

Ultra-Fab apparently put the ad in TL early to generate interest. Advertising vapor-ware is nothing new (ask Microsoft).

Models change. Just a different color of paint or new instrumentation is reason enough to create a new model number.

Ultra Fab is a buyer, dealer, distributor. Just as every Home Depot does not carry the Champion generator, every RV dealer in the Ultra-Fab network will not carry the Champion product line.

If you go to the Ultra-Fab web site (www.ultra-fab.com) you will see the familiar yellow Champion gensets. The one we know as the 40008 is listed there as a 3500e - nothing new about that. Bet that the color will change to blue as supplies are shipped to Ultra-fab.

Look at the glass as half full rather than almost empty. Good things will come from all of this.

[Old___Slow]

Ultra-Gen

Something is way strange. I just tried to Email Ultra-Fab and the Email was non delivered. Maybe this is one of those PALLET Load dealers and buyer beware. Or they need to get there house in order. First the Trailer Life ad and now no Ultra-Gen generators, period. Are they going to be rebranded Champion, a new line or a Chonda CLONE? or none of the above:h