3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[trumptman88]

Gerry2006 wrote:
Thanks to the Prof and Floyd for the input. As best as I can tell, the manufacturer for the Duropower is Dexin International. They share the same campus in Covina, CA. and the name is mentioned in their "Terms and Policies" (warranty) on Duropower's web page. Unfortunately, the Dexin Website has broken links so it is really hard to confirm if it is indeed the manufacturer of the unit. Anyway, I hope I have good reports!

Gerry

This website?

[Gerry2006]

Thanks to the Prof and Floyd for the input. As best as I can tell, the manufacturer for the Duropower is Dexin International. They share the same campus in Covina, CA. and the name is mentioned in their "Terms and Policies" (warranty) on Duropower's web page. Unfortunately, the Dexin Website has broken links so it is really hard to confirm if it is indeed the manufacturer of the unit. Anyway, I hope I have good reports!

Gerry

[Old___Slow]

Prof,

You missed me? No wonder your my fave Prof' of all time. Those before were sure to give me a passing grade so I would surly pass on. lol I've always said, the good die young. I'm still here. Anyways, I wished the ol' DuroPower well and sent her on down to road. Got me a newer MH with a, yes, ONAN. But, here is the kicker. I have RV.Net and this thread together with the Champion C46540 in good reserve, just rearen' and waitin' Oh, you forgot one 'C' and on that Champion rating. I'm one of those. We are the best folks on mother earth, don't you think?

Floyd

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:
I'm still here looking over your shoulder, Prof. Ordertree.com/Champion needs your help. Come on now, compete with good ol' Duropower. The big fat F rating for DuroPower was due to lack of CS in the old days.

Where in the ding-dong have you been? I was getting ready to search the Texas orbits to make sure you were still around.

Sold the MH!!!!! Are you getting another or just giving it up?

As for DuroPower - look back at my message. I DID say that the quality of the product appears to be good. CS problems are not just from the old days, I can find numerous reports that they still exist. BTW, Champion has a rating of "CC", certainly not an "AA" where they need to be.

News from Santa Fe Springs is that Ordertree is the beginning and will expand. Since the boys and girtls at CPE DO NOT market their products thru Internet sales it is a whole different world. It will do them good to provide more info to potential customers, but on-line sales is not their game (as it is for DuroPower).

Keep in mind too that DuroPower calls themselves an "outlet store". Champion, on the other hand, is a manufacturer and distributor that owns the process from the get-go to the consumer.

No argument that the DuroPower is a well made unit. Whoever builds the things has more models than Baskin Robbins has ice cream flavors. They have to come from a huge manufacturer - I just don't know for sure which one it is.

[VDOCAD]

professor95 wrote:

Oldfordman wrote:
I found that 7014 rod is easier for beginners as it is essentially a "contact rod". Quick to strike an arc and hard to stick. Slag will literally peel off as it cools. Downside is that the steel MUST be clean.

Don't know what VDOCAD is using for a rod, but you should try the 7014 if it is not in your quill.

Actually sticking was not a real problem for me. I use 6013 rods. I will give the 7014s a try even though I am thinking about replacing my welder for a wire feed one that will work with my Champion. We are looking to get out of the city and buy some property in the sticks, and I can picture myself fixing fences or other things away from my dream shop(after I build it). I will see how I can demo one before I buy it to make sure the generator will handle it.

Thanks to all again for your input.

[Old___Slow]

I'm still here looking over your shoulder, Prof. Ordertree.com/Champion needs your help. Come on now, compete with good ol' Duropower. The big fat F rating for DuroPower was due to lack of CS in the old days. Champion is best in CS. But, Duropower Equipment from my experience is great quality. I too will be interested in a follow up on the Inverter from DP. Oh, you might like to know, I sold my MH with the DP3500EC installed in the factory genset compartment. That sold the rig. 62 dBA with Brad's design enclosure developed from ideas learned from various sources and our Prof.. But, you still are the winner with looks and sound level of your TT rear mounted Champion enclosure. Can you get someone to build the same and pleasure other fine RV folks? You mentioned how much your neighbors appreciated the low sound level on your last outing. Anyway, I'm now down to only owning a Champion C46540, the all time winner on this thread. Still working on that portable panel idea you gave us. I would like to reach 64 dBA. How is your progress with that great idea?

Floyd

[professor95]

Champion Power Equipment now has their parts and literature on-line. Also a dealer locater. Check it out here. (http://www.ordertree.com/Champion)

[professor95]

Gerry2006 wrote:
I have read the concerns about dealing with Duropower but decided to take the chance and I just ordered one.

I sincerely hope you have a good experience with your order from DuroPower. The Better Business Report on the company is dismal.

Yet, DuroPower appears to have a decent product and the advertised variety of generators is comprehensive.

The forum does want to know what your experience is with this company and what grade you will give the inverter generator. Many questions have been asked about this product. But, as you noted, answers were not forthcoming.

[Gerry2006]

I was trying to find information on the Duropower DP3600Ri 3600W Digital Inverter Generator with Remote Start in this forum but found no posts. I have read the concerns about dealing with Duropower but decided to take the chance and I just ordered one. I intend to update everyone here on the experience with Duropower and this particular model. So far, my dealings with them were pleasant. I talked to the sales manager named Joe and he was good to work with. I should receive the generator next week, and I'll keep everyone posted. If things work out well, I'll report that here, and if things don't, I will post that here and everywhere else I can think of!
Wish me luck.

Gerry

[professor95]

Oldfordman wrote:
I found that 7014 rod is easier for beginners as it is essentially a "contact rod". Quick to strike an arc and hard to stick. Slag will literally peel off as it cools. Downside is that the steel MUST be clean.

I agree, the 7014 is a much easier rod to use with a stick welder. I have some 6011 rods I use when deep penetration is needed, but even after many years of using a stick welder I have trouble with the 6011 rods.

Anyway, the 7014 is the best rod to use for beginners and occasional welders (not pros) - just set it in the groove and drag it along the line. Supposedly it is not as strong as others, but sure is easier to use.

Don't know what VDOCAD is using for a rod, but you should try the 7014 if it is not in your quill.

I have two different gas mixes for the wirefeed, but seldom use them. The flux core wire works extremely well on everything but stainless and aluminum. I switch to gas shielding on those metals.

I also have oxygen/acetylene. I am darn good with the tanks and always go to it first for light gauge metals.

Being able to weld at a home shop is a must for me. If I did not have a welder(s) I would really be up a creek keeping most all of my machinery operational.

Glad to know the Champion has worked for your welding needs. Perhaps I need to try again?

[Oldfordman]

I have used my Champion generator extensively with my welder just like this one Mig Welder and it has worked great.

I prefer to use the generator to pulling a large extension cord due to voltage drop over the long cord.

A properly adjusted mig using CO2/Argon mix yields nice smooth welds with good penetration. I have been welding as a hobby for over 56 years and don't see any issues with using this generator as long as one is using a welder that falls within it's power output. A Mig is easier than a stick welder in this respect as sticking is difficult to overcome when you are a beginner. I found that 7014 rod is easier for beginners as it is essentially a "contact rod". Quick to strike an arc and hard to stick. Slag will litteraly peel off as it cools. Downside is that the steel MUST be clean.

Sadly, the generator is best used with a 110V Arc Welder as the 230V models usually require a full 20 amp or more and the Champ is topped out at 15amp @230v

[MrWizard]

awe, stick welding, i have not mastered that skill yet, I stick the rod to the work more times than i strike an arc.
BTW it will take more amps to maintain an arc on a stick than it does with wire, because of the physical sized of the stick, it takes more power to heat it up and melt it, and there is also a larger surface area involved,

[VDOCAD]

Thank you both for your responses. Actually the very first time I tried to use the champion to weld was about one month ago and it must have been 80 degrees. I was in a hurry so when I saw the results, I stopped and plugged the welder in the 20A circuit of my garage.
I forgot to mention that yesterday I tried 1/16" as well as 3/32" rods with about the same result. My unit is a Harbor Freight welder Arc 140(??) rated to 70A on 120V and 110A on 240V. Maximum draw 42A. I used it to modify my hitch so I could have a carrier as well as be able to tow if I have to. It came out pretty good considering it was my first welding project.

Most important, my champion runs the A/C on my MH just fine.

Thanks again and keep cool MrWizard... it will be another hot one today!

[professor95]

VDOCAD wrote:
One quick question for all of you Champion generator owners. Has anyone been able to run a welder with it?

A couple of years back I attempted to reweld the battery tray on my camper using my ELM3000 and a Century 125 wire feed welder. The Century was using .030 flux core wire (it also will use .035). It was wired for use on a 20A, 120 VAC ciruit. The Century 125 is a 100 amp max welder (so why do thay call it a 125?) I did manage to reweld the angle iron on the corners, but the weld was not real pretty. I had to run the maximum welder current - which I normally would not for such a weld on 1/8" metal - and really slow down the feed.

Later, I tried welding again using the Century 125 with my first Champion CA4065. I think I had .035 wire in it at the time, but the results were about the same. Maybe if I had used .030 it would have worked better?

About a year ago I tried a friend's 85 amp Harbor Freight wire feed welder with the CA4065 on 12 gauge metal (lawn tractor mowing deck). Both current switches were set to MAX (welder has 4 different current settings via 2 switches marked MIN/MAX). I was able to strike and hold a decent arc and run a pretty consistent bead where a bracket had broken off - I believe it is still holding.

This is where I determined that 85 amps would be about the max on a portable welder. Keep in mind, individual results may vary.

While I hesitate to say it is a good idea, you might want to turn the screw on the AVR adjustment up to around 135 volts and even increase the speed of the engine to around 4,000 RPM if you are trying welding. The increased voltage and engine speed may help. The higher frequency from the genny will not hurt the welder. If you go this route remember to keep duty cycles short - like 20% or less - it will be hard on the generator.

Like the Wiz said; hot, dry air will reduce power from the engine. Again, as an idea, try to cool and humidify the air to the engine to get the power back. Something like a fine mist of water close engough for the intake to suck the cool, wet air into the carb. Maybe one of those fine mist nozzels used in green houses or to keep kids cool on a hot day. Shucks, sucking air through a wet towell could help too.

Once again, this is an idea, not a recomendation. Proceed at your own risk!

[MrWizard]

you are correct, i have run my 90amp Lincoln wire feed, on many occasions, but i don't think i have done it on a day this HOT ( on days like this, i am more concerned with my A/C and trying to cool down the RV ) and heat greatly de-rates/reduces generator output, i'm also using flux core wire 'no gas' so the metal density of my welding wire is less than solid wire used with MIG, assuming you are using mig, these (2) items would make a difference

and of course my welder is designed to run 120 volts on a 15-20 amp circuit

1/8 angle iron is my most common item to weld , maybe its only 3/32 ? I get it as scrap and haven't checked the thickness in a long time