3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[blkfe]

Salvo wrote:

blkfe wrote:

Ok...I was bored today so ran some tests on the 12VDC output of my Champ.

That looked so ugly I decided to check out my 12V. It's even nastier!



12V unloaded, 5V/Div, 0.5 ms/Div, Gnd = bottom line
Fluke meter reads 22V dc



12V loaded ~1A, 5V/Div, 0.5 ms/Div, Gnd = bottom line
Fluke meter reads 12.3V



View of Yamaha EF2800i



I decided not to buy the MH with the Onan installed. Weight is an issue. I carry a motorcycle in the back and need to cut weight. Out with the 170 lb Onan and in with the 70 lb Yamaha.

I haven't installed any extra cooling. I run the gen with the door open. I don't run it for long. Never use AC. Just microwave and occasional battery charge. Do I need a fan?

Thanks for any input.

Sal

Jeez...cool old scope...how long does it take to warm up.....
Brad

[Old___Slow]

Well Prof', this inverter 3000w genny @ $639 with free shipping has a money back warranty by PAY PAL. Anyway, I thought it cute like your new little genny in the cave. You are launching out. Who said old folks can't find new territory and learn new tricks:W

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:
Prof,

You have loosened the reign just a little to enclude the new Chinese 3000w Inverters. That's good. These new (No Name) units are interesting. A person can stick a toe into the market without much skin in the game. Less than $700 WOW. $900.00 for electric start with remote control.
Didn't take long for R & D to be covered.

Loosened the reigns?

I know nothing about this genny and only attembted to answer his quesions. Without some real emperial data I would not recomend this aforementiod geny. Still a lot to lean!

[Old___Slow]

MrWizard wrote:
Floyd what the heck are you talking about, i don't see any posts about $700 inverter generators, please post a ref POST # or link

Guess you missed it, two or three posts back (saycheese-LINK) it's listed as 3000w and priced at $639 with free shipping. Quite a price!

[MrWizard]

Floyd what the heck are you talking about, i don't see any posts about $700 inverter generators, please post a ref POST # or link

[Old___Slow]

Prof,

You have loosened the reign just a little to enclude the new Chinese 3000w Inverters. That's good. These new (No Name) units are interesting. A person can stick a toe into the market without much skin in the game. Less than $700 WOW. $900.00 for electric start with remote control.
Didn't take long for R & D to be covered.

[the_mean_fish]

professor95 wrote:

the mean fish wrote:

It has the 30 amp TT outlet on the front, I should be ok right?

You have a 46540 and are good-to-go "as is" privided your switch is in the 120 position and you are plugged into the TT outlet. Your other outlets are 15 and 20 amps. You can draw up to 29 amps from the TT outlet for a short interval. 25 amps continious.

Thanks, this little $110 generator is still the best internet purchase I've ever made.

[professor95]

saycheese wrote:
Sorry to interrupt.......

But, will this generator power an A/C (13.5k or 15k)?

link

Your outlets are standard North American 20 amp duplex. You can tell they are 20 amps by the "T" slot on the lower side in the photo.

The dogbone adapters commonly sold for this type of outlet are only rated for 15 amps.

When someone atempts to run a 13.5 to 15K BTU airconditioner off of a 15 amp dogbone adapter and a duplex outlet they typically get very hot. The heat can damage both the pigtail on the dogbone and the duplex outlet in the genny. The outlet then develops a resistance that heats further, causing a voltage drop and ultimately doing serious damage to the genny.

The 2,700 watts should be enough to start and run most rooftop air conditioners. Some hard start models may not run off the genny. You will need to be sure all other loads are off. This includes the RV converter, electric side of refrigerator and electric water heater.

You "may" be able to use it for A/C with the proper adapter. I made one for mine a few years ago and it works well.

There is also a commercial adapter that used both parts of the duplex outlet to convert to the 30 amp TT outlet. I cannot say if it will work OK on the unit you are considering as I have not tested it.

Just a comment - the unit you show on e-bay will not be any quiter running an A/C with a 65 dBA rating than an open frame Chinese genny. (it may sound quiter at low loads) Unless weight is a major consideration I would stick with the time proven and very durable Chinese 3,000 watt class open frame units for running an A/C. Parts are also very easy to find and less expensive should they be needed.

[professor95]

the mean fish wrote:

It has the 30 amp TT outlet on the front, I should be ok right?

You have a 46540 and are good-to-go "as is" privided your switch is in the 120 position and you are plugged into the TT outlet. Your other outlets are 15 and 20 amps. You can draw up to 29 amps from the TT outlet for a short interval. 25 amps continious.

[quabillion]

saycheese wrote:
Sorry to interrupt.......

But, will this generator power an A/C (13.5k or 15k)?

IMHO
With that outlet configuration, NO.
With a REAL 30A RV outlet, maybe. And thats a big maybe.

I would have to see one in real life to be able to give a definitive, for sure answer.

[saycheese]

Sorry to interrupt.......

But, will this generator power an A/C (13.5k or 15k)?

link

[the_mean_fish]

professor95 wrote:

the mean fish wrote:
Guys, I've literally been reading this thread for 3 weeks now looking for info on rewiring my Champion generator to give me full power at the RV outlet and searching for things like rewire, coil, parallel, etc come up with nothing... I just need a page number if anyone knows where it is. Thanks.

Three weeks? Sounds like you are a glutton for punishment :B. You should have spoken up earlier.

Unless you have an older model 46535, there is no rewiring to be done. The newer model 46540 with the 30 amp TT outlet will provide full available amperage when in the 120 VAC mode.

If you should have a 46535, let me know via private e-mail (PM function) and I will send you the rewire info.

It's only been a couple hours a day. 😄

This is what I have...



It has the 30 amp TT outlet on the front, I should be ok right?

[quabillion]

Sal, I think that a fan should be included with the genny so that someone who knows little about generators can operate it without damage. What I am getting at here is someday others might need to run the gen in your absence, they may not know to leave the hatch open, or really load it down with air conditioner duty, who knows.

Im just thinking its a good idea to have either a cooling system, or a thermal shutdown that triggered well below the damaging them range to promote generator lifespan.


BTW those are some good pictures of yourself in the scope screen:B

[Old___Slow]

Salvo,

You need help from Brad. He designed a box (enclosure) for my genny in a past MH. Like your, mine was open and my genny was a sight to behold after a road trip. A old man almost cried:E Brad's the man with the plan.

[Salvo]

blkfe wrote:

Ok...I was bored today so ran some tests on the 12VDC output of my Champ.

That looked so ugly I decided to check out my 12V. It's even nastier!



12V unloaded, 5V/Div, 0.5 ms/Div, Gnd = bottom line
Fluke meter reads 22V dc



12V loaded ~1A, 5V/Div, 0.5 ms/Div, Gnd = bottom line
Fluke meter reads 12.3V



View of Yamaha EF2800i



I decided not to buy the MH with the Onan installed. Weight is an issue. I carry a motorcycle in the back and need to cut weight. Out with the 170 lb Onan and in with the 70 lb Yamaha.

I haven't installed any extra cooling. I run the gen with the door open. I don't run it for long. Never use AC. Just microwave and occasional battery charge. Do I need a fan?

Thanks for any input.

Sal