3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Old___Slow]

blkfe wrote:

MrWizard wrote:
the posts the 'IRK' me are the Inverter genny posts, where they say something like "its so quiet, i don't mine letting it run all the time" OR "all night" etc.. "yeah..right"

I think the Honeywell is well built, a good buy in the $500 range and fantastic deal at $299,

it uses less gas than the champ when powering the A/C, but its running on the edge when powering the A/C,

i haven't done a side by side comparison YET, because i have to unload the compartment to get the champ out, i have it shoehorned in there with the BBQ grill, chairs, water hose, bottle jacks etc..

I made room for the HW by re-arranging the storage arrangement. to get the HW in & out


everybody who see's thing is impressed with it,
the hondYammy crowd will no doubt cite the db rating as being different, i don't have a sound meter for a db count, but i think side by side video recordings give better real world perspective on this, i've been offered a chance to do some comparisons and when i can find the chance to take the appropriate amount of time to do this, i think I will. but it won't be happening in the next few weeks so NO-body hold your breath.

trumptman88:

after re-reading your post, i now remember seeing it, i had just forgotten that I had.

i think the HW will work out for my daily 'battery charging' with occasional MW use, and occasional 'cool the house down', but when the temps get really hot, the champ is comming back out, I am interested in seeing IF it will power my little Lincoln 90amp wire feed welder. my champ does, although NOW i usually do the job with the 6.5Kw onan.

the HW weighs less than my welder and both are about the same physical size, makes for a highly portable setup, IF need be.

here's a video of the HW running (1) 11.5k btu A/C unit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drctRuVD6xo

I took audio/vidio of my install last year to post on these forums. The audio made it sound much louder than it actually was so I desided not to post it.
Brad

The picture of the Champion is truly interesting. Is it a experimental
unit? The air intake looks different. Gives me a idea. If cool out side air could be brought into the shroud from another location, that would be good. If that is what I see? And that unit looks good to have 2500 hours plus. You really are a clean guy. My Champion got really dirty while traveling in the old compartment like on your old MH. Your doing good. Just waiting for the side by side sound test. Maybe the Champion is not so loud when compared to the Honeywell. Thanks for your time to give us all this interesting info' Floyd

Copy made.

[MrWizard]

well the audio recorder in ALL camera's ( except professional MOVIE equipment & they use separate sound recording mikes etc ) is tuned for the Human Speech tone range, and many are designed to amplify that 'range'

but if using the same camera for recording different gennies, at least they will all be treated equally & impartially by the camera, even if each of them comes out sounding louder than what it really is

[blkfe]

MrWizard wrote:
the posts the 'IRK' me are the Inverter genny posts, where they say something like "its so quiet, i don't mine letting it run all the time" OR "all night" etc.. "yeah..right"

I think the Honeywell is well built, a good buy in the $500 range and fantastic deal at $299,

it uses less gas than the champ when powering the A/C, but its running on the edge when powering the A/C,

i haven't done a side by side comparison YET, because i have to unload the compartment to get the champ out, i have it shoehorned in there with the BBQ grill, chairs, water hose, bottle jacks etc..

I made room for the HW by re-arranging the storage arrangement. to get the HW in & out


everybody who see's thing is impressed with it,
the hondYammy crowd will no doubt cite the db rating as being different, i don't have a sound meter for a db count, but i think side by side video recordings give better real world perspective on this, i've been offered a chance to do some comparisons and when i can find the chance to take the appropriate amount of time to do this, i think I will. but it won't be happening in the next few weeks so NO-body hold your breath.

trumptman88:

after re-reading your post, i now remember seeing it, i had just forgotten that I had.

i think the HW will work out for my daily 'battery charging' with occasional MW use, and occasional 'cool the house down', but when the temps get really hot, the champ is comming back out, I am interested in seeing IF it will power my little Lincoln 90amp wire feed welder. my champ does, although NOW i usually do the job with the 6.5Kw onan.

the HW weighs less than my welder and both are about the same physical size, makes for a highly portable setup, IF need be.

here's a video of the HW running (1) 11.5k btu A/C unit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drctRuVD6xo

I took audio/vidio of my install last year to post on these forums. The audio made it sound much louder than it actually was so I desided not to post it.
Brad

[MrWizard]

the posts the 'IRK' me are the Inverter genny posts, where they say something like "its so quiet, i don't mine letting it run all the time" OR "all night" etc.. "yeah..right"

I think the Honeywell is well built, a good buy in the $500 range and fantastic deal at $299,

it uses less gas than the champ when powering the A/C, but its running on the edge when powering the A/C,

i haven't done a side by side comparison YET, because i have to unload the compartment to get the champ out, i have it shoehorned in there with the BBQ grill, chairs, water hose, bottle jacks etc..

I made room for the HW by re-arranging the storage arrangement. to get the HW in & out


everybody who see's thing is impressed with it,
the hondYammy crowd will no doubt cite the db rating as being different, i don't have a sound meter for a db count, but i think side by side video recordings give better real world perspective on this, i've been offered a chance to do some comparisons and when i can find the chance to take the appropriate amount of time to do this, i think I will. but it won't be happening in the next few weeks so NO-body hold your breath.

trumptman88:

after re-reading your post, i now remember seeing it, i had just forgotten that I had.

i think the HW will work out for my daily 'battery charging' with occasional MW use, and occasional 'cool the house down', but when the temps get really hot, the champ is comming back out, I am interested in seeing IF it will power my little Lincoln 90amp wire feed welder. my champ does, although NOW i usually do the job with the 6.5Kw onan.

the HW weighs less than my welder and both are about the same physical size, makes for a highly portable setup, IF need be.

here's a video of the HW running (1) 11.5k btu A/C unit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drctRuVD6xo

[professor95]

roadyacht wrote:
It would seem,therefore,that if efficiency was the criteria rather than cost up front only,battery/inverter to run coffee maker,and daytime generator/solar to charge battery pack is the only logical conclusion.
Listing all the battery/inverter components,and coffee maker(etc.)wattage/hour and how long you could expect to easily keep your coffee warm,and your CFL lighting,and oscillating fan going, by consensus would make a good thread.
I have not researched the forum's past posts to know if this thread is already there. Anybody?

We sort of addressed the issue several years(??) back when we got off on amp hours, reserve minutes and inverter efficiency. But, we did not go too deeply as it was off topic for this thread. There were some pretty deep discussions on one of the battery/inverter threads but I did not keep it as a favorite - so.... not sure which one it was.

That said, any resistance heating device (coffee pot) will eat up amp hours quickly.

Nancy and I transfer our brewed coffee to a thermal carafe or a thermous jar. It will keep it hot for several hours. Not only that, the coffee does not get burnt, murky or too strong. It always taste fresh brewed. They also require zero energy.

BTW - I rarely use my Kipor 2000i inverter for the same reasons MrWizard cited. When the engine speed ramps up it is actually louder than the Champion as installed in the cave.

It is great for work around the ranch (hedge trimmer, electric pruning saw, power tools, etc.). I just pitch it on the back of the golf cart or tractor and take it and the tools to the job.

As for cold starting... well, it has an auto fuel shut off and vacuum breaker when you turn the engine run/power switch off. So, when it sits for a while you should turn it to ON and wait 5-10 minutes before trying to start. This lets fuel back into the bowl and it will generally start on the 2nd pull.

[roadyacht]

It would seem,therefore,that if efficiency was the criteria rather than cost up front only,battery/inverter to run coffee maker,and daytime generator/solar to charge battery pack is the only logical conclusion.
Listing all the battery/inverter components,and coffee maker(etc.)wattage/hour and how long you could expect to easily keep your coffee warm,and your CFL lighting,and oscillating fan going, by consensus would make a good thread.
I have not researched the forum's past posts to know if this thread is already there. Anybody?

[trumptman88]

MrWizard wrote:

I will say this, we got annoyed using it for the electric drip coffee maker, we like to leave the coffee maker on to keep the coffee warm, the heating element cycles on and off, the 'Inverter' genny is 'RAMPING up & down' every few minutes, this is very annoying, i would rather listen to a constant drone. so either i am going to have to turn the coffee maker off, and deal with heating cold coffee in the MW, or run the Champ or Onan for coffee, and use the HW only after morning coffee is finished.

I did try switching econ OFF, which raised the basic speed up so the RAMPING difference was not as great, but it still ramped up & down with the cycling of the coffee maker.

IF you are the type that makes drip coffee, then turns off the coffee maker, because you consume it pretty quick and it won't get cold, then you won't get annoyed,

its a totally personal thing, but something i've NEVER SEEN mentioned in any previous generator thread

since inverter generators are quieter, it may be less noticeable further from the campsite or less noticeable if you are watching the morning news on TV.

everything has its place, and i'm not ready to dump my Champion.

I've mentioned the cycling versus constant drone in several generator threads.

The last time was here.

In fact, proving great minds think alike, I actually mentioned your exact scenario.

ME wrote:
Now believe it or not, I have been woken up more by inverter generators than by open-frame/non-contractor generators. The reasoning is that most folks who have louder generators give some thought to when they run them and do as I do, run them during the busier times of the day. I've found a lot of folks who spend the additional money think they have a lack of consideration pass with regard to their neighbors. Most turn it on eco-mode or even feel entitled to run them outside of generator hours, and forget the noise they make when they hit their electric coffee makers in the very early morning hours.

It is also easier for me to tune out a consistent noise instead of one that keeps cycling. The constant becomes like white noise and fades into the background. The cycling up and down and the revving of the generator that goes with it bugs me because my brain keeps notifying me of the change.

So for me it was a $300 Champion, and a couple hundred more for some additional battery capacity and hardware to hook it up.

Just keeping it real for the Champion.;)

[parrothead_71]

To answer your question about unrealistic wattage/engine size, the answer is yes. My hope was to be able to wire it and for it to power everything that the champ 3500 does. The unit is rated at 4000 continuous power but I fiquare the most I would really get would 3600 watts @ 30 amps.
It will almost exclusivly be used for the TT for dry camping. Last summer we camped at a campground that lost power after a thunderstorm. We sat in the TT with no power or ac for 7 hours with our 2 plus 2 other children. To top it off the grounds relied on a pump for well water so no one on the entire campground could flush. It was the longest camping weekend of my life.
Thank you for your answer. That is exactly the info I was looking for to wire the cable correctly. I have a pretty good grasp on electricity but start getting confussed when it comes to understanding the differance single/three phase, parallel poles, ect... Don't worry i know my limitations and always stop prior to damaging something or me.
Thanks,
Chris

[professor95]

MrWizard wrote:
I believe the Canadian version is required by law (Ca electrical code) to bond the neutral side to the grd wire/frame of the generator, the USA version does not have this physical bonding of the frame to the neutral

As an added general comment (Not to MrWizard - he all ready knows all of this 🙂

While we still do not have universal agreement (see this thread for the complete discussion) I contend that when using a portable generator with a 20 or 30 amp RV it is safer NOT to have the neutral and grounding conductors bonded. I believe they should be isolated - as it is in the RV wiring.

For all other uses of the generator bonding is often prefered, though redundant with the source it is connected to.

You may want to research this and make your own decision about retaining the bond or removing it for use with your RV.

[professor95]

parrothead_71 wrote:
6.5 HP. The reason I wanted to make one instead of buying it was I have all 3 pieces I need from a previous experiment. And the 10ga cable I have is about 20ft. Which would help get it further away from the trailer. I ran it a little while this PM. It's a little louder than the champion 3500 tht my dad has.

I hope you realize that the 5000 watt rating is totally unrealistic for the engine size. Unfortunately, some manufacturers use surge or peak for their ratings. With a 6.5 HP engine you will have 2,800 watts for continious duty with an intermittent duty cycle up to 3,500 watts.

The NEMA 14-30R outlet will be labeled G, W, Y and X.

The G is your grounding conductor which is green and attaches to the green wire or screw on your 30 amp TT outlet. This wire also connects to the frame of the RV and the frame of the generator.

The W is your neutral conductor which is white and attaches to the silver screw or white wire on your 30 amp TT outlet. My belief is that for TT use it is safer NOT to have this conductor bonded to the generator frame or TT frame.

Both Y and X may be 120 volt each or 240 volts between them. In 120 volt mode the X is usually the terminal that is hot. You will need to check with a meter to be sure what is what on your genny. Connect the meter between W and X, then W and Y to see which pair is hot. In any event, either the X or Y lug (NOT BOTH) will connect to the black wire or gold screw on your 30 amp TT outlet.

[parrothead_71]

6.5 HP. The reason I wanted to make one instead of buying it was I have all 3 pieces I need from a previous experiment. And the 10ga cable I have is about 20ft. Which would help get it further away from the trailer. I ran it a little while this PM. It's a little louder than the champion 3500 tht my dad has.

[professor95]

parrothead_71 wrote:
I have two questions that I know have been answered here but have not been able to find it in the nearly 800 pages. 1 What is the proper wiring to make an adaptor to convert to a 30 amp RV? 2. Once the brakers are on the twist lock hasa a choiceof 120 or 240. it should be set to 120 for the rv correct? I would be just as happy if someone points me to the post where these are answers instead of having to take someones time up again. By the way this is a single phase gen.
Thanks in advance. Keep up the good work Prof.

You can actuall buy the adapter cheaper than you can make it. Check here for an example.

For a 30 amp RV connection, yes - set the switch for 120 VAC.

All of the 3,000 watt class Chinese generators we have explored on this thread are single phase generators. But, single phase generators that have the windings in series have a 180 degree phase differential between main coils. These are mistakenly often called multi-phase.

What size engine does this True Life 5000 genny have?

[professor95]

My Kipor 2000i - MrWizard's Honeywell 2000i

Well, these two are obviously not copies of each other in the fuel and engine compartment. I sure would like to know how the inverter circuits compare?

[parrothead_71]

I just pulled this forum up after not looking at it for almost a year, if not more than. I had made up my mind to pick up a champ with th 30amp rv for the TT but had just been waiting for a sign from above. Today on my way home from work on the local radio swap shop there was a used generator. I gave the lady a call and went buy it. It was a True Life 5000 watt with a 120/240 L14-30 plug and 2 10 amp household outlets. I have two questions that I know have been answered here but have not been able to find it in the nearly 800 pages. 1 What is the proper wiring to make an adaptor to convert to a 30 amp RV? 2. Once the brakers are on the twist lock hasa a choiceof 120 or 240. it should be set to 120 for the rv correct? I would be just as happy if someone points me to the post where these are answers instead of having to take someones time up again. By the way this is a single phase gen.
Thanks in advance. Keep up the good work Prof.

[Old___Slow]

Welcome Happy_waver.

A big wave to you. Glad you found your way to this forum. I too found my way to this forum several years ago and bought a Champion. It has past the stress test, had a conversion, to LPG that is and now has Electric Start. Some sound panels lowers the noise level. It is now in my genhouse, ready on a moments notice.

Floyd