3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[MrWizard]

every thing you want to know is the last 100 pages of this, much of it has been repeated many times, because the thread is so large

yes heat is an issue, IF permanently mounted in the OEM compartment the gas tank must be re-located the muffler relocated outside the compartment, and POWERED ventilation provided

in our Previous RV, my answer to those problems was to install a sliding tray in the OEM compartment and slide the generator out to use and back inside when traveling, this elimated all issues of modifing the generator, but i could NOT use the generator while driving, NO using the rooftop A/C while on the road, other than that it was for me, a perfect solution

[blkfe]

mauricedorris wrote:
OK... this thread is kinda like reading war and peace ! Its informative, but way to big to find the answers to my question. I have an 89 class c with an onan 4kw emerald 1 generator that I am just sick of investing in. Its cost me at least $2000 over the past 5 years in various repairs. Now its down again. I am DONE with this particular generator.

I guess I'll go get a Champion or a Duropower cause they are both pretty close to me. I can go the warehouse and actually see them.

Questions:

1. how do you compensate for elevation changes. I go from sea level to almost 8000ft on some of my camping trips.

2. Is is possible to simply mount the generator in my existing generator compartment? If I got creative, I could realistically put in a 30amp receptacle right in the generator compartment and maybe figure out a way to use the existing gas line to feed into the champion/duropower, right?

3. I have a 4K watt onan. I don't know much about that one except that its expensive to fix. So is the 4k watts nominal or surge (am I saying this right?) I need to run the roof air a fridge and an occasional microwave. Do I need something bigger than the RV generators and their 3500 watts.

4. If I mount it into the compartment, would I have a problem with heat? there is a screen door and the bottom is open on the compartment. Would I also need a fan? The onan worked fine in this same compartment. More than anything, I would need the compartment to be able to store the generator.

5. How is the noise realistically. My existing Onan is not quiet at all. Its noisy as hell and vibrates the entire motorhome.

Any advice is appreciated. I am ACTIVELY looking for a replacement generator to replace the one I have. I need to AC to keep the wife happy. You guys can surely appreciate my sense of urgency.

I tried to find all these answers, but gave up after reading the first 120 pages or so. This is obviously a great thread..

Thanks

Maurice
89 class c with a onan emerald I 4kw boat anchor
empty wallet from fixing it

All good questions.

Professor 95 install

Another one
Compartment Install

[mauricedorris]

OK... this thread is kinda like reading war and peace ! Its informative, but way to big to find the answers to my question. I have an 89 class c with an onan 4kw emerald 1 generator that I am just sick of investing in. Its cost me at least $2000 over the past 5 years in various repairs. Now its down again. I am DONE with this particular generator.

I guess I'll go get a Champion or a Duropower cause they are both pretty close to me. I can go the warehouse and actually see them.

Questions:

1. how do you compensate for elevation changes. I go from sea level to almost 8000ft on some of my camping trips.

2. Is is possible to simply mount the generator in my existing generator compartment? If I got creative, I could realistically put in a 30amp receptacle right in the generator compartment and maybe figure out a way to use the existing gas line to feed into the champion/duropower, right?

3. I have a 4K watt onan. I don't know much about that one except that its expensive to fix. So is the 4k watts nominal or surge (am I saying this right?) I need to run the roof air a fridge and an occasional microwave. Do I need something bigger than the RV generators and their 3500 watts.

4. If I mount it into the compartment, would I have a problem with heat? there is a screen door and the bottom is open on the compartment. Would I also need a fan? The onan worked fine in this same compartment. More than anything, I would need the compartment to be able to store the generator.

5. How is the noise realistically. My existing Onan is not quiet at all. Its noisy as hell and vibrates the entire motorhome.

Any advice is appreciated. I am ACTIVELY looking for a replacement generator to replace the one I have. I need to AC to keep the wife happy. You guys can surely appreciate my sense of urgency.

I tried to find all these answers, but gave up after reading the first 120 pages or so. This is obviously a great thread..

Thanks

Maurice
89 class c with a onan emerald I 4kw boat anchor
empty wallet from fixing it

[MrWizard]

I'm running on memory here

give the full std. setting just in case the arm has moved on the
shaft. I would remove the gas tank, ( 4 bolts and end bar of frame (2
bolts) and slide the tank out of the frame. Now loosen the pinch bolt on
the engine governor shaft. Next take the governor arm and push to full
throttle (full clockwise). Then while holding the gov. arm rotate the
gov. shaft also clockwise (turn with pliers or adjustable wrench on flat
side on end of shaft. After those two movements , hold in position and
tighten the pinch bolt. This gives you a factory setting for the arm to
the shaft. Then try it gain.

[luv2travelnow]

any info about the genny in this ad http://hoboonline.com/weekly/hoboweekly08-25-09.pdf i already have a champion but if this is as good i would not mind haveing a second genny


Dan

[Megawatt]

Ok..That's what I thought but my Champion obviously still has governor problems. I had a few minutes to play with it tonight. I inspected the governor assembly again and can't find any problems. It does look identical to the pics above. Both springs have decent tension and no convolutions are bent. I connected my DMM to the 30 amp plug and took an initial reading of 80HZ @122vac. I proceeded to back off the throttle adjustment screw and the RPMs started to drop along with the frequency. I had to back this screw out at least 10 turns to get 61HZ @120vac. The throttle screw is now about 3/4 of the way out.

I thought all was good until..... I loaded the genny with 6 amps and the frequency (and RPMs)dropped to 40HZ. The reverse procedure with setting the frequency with a load yielded the same results but in the opposite direction.
I can watch the throttle and it doesn't move at all when I load the genny. If I place a finger on the throttle arm I can get the RPM's to come back up.
Now.. with the throttle screw this far out both springs do still have tension but I'm thinking it may not be enough. I know this is a simple assembly but I just can't figure it out ???

[MrWizard]

62 unloaded is normal, with 59-60 under load

[Mr__Jeff]

Megawatt - The you should set the governor to give you 60Hz, loaded or unloaded. The purpose ofthe governor is to maintain the speed (frequency) of the engine to produce a steady frequency, namely, 60Hz. The frequency will drop initially when you bring on a load then should recover almost immediately. If you set the governor to give 60Hz unloaded, you should that or near it (within a couple Hz) when it is steady with a load.

[Learjet]

no higher than 62 hz unloaded.

[Megawatt]

Guys..Thanks for the information. I should have checked the CPE web site for Technical Bulletins. I did just look at my governor assembly and it looks identical to the Professor's pics. Everything appears to be correct and nothing bent. The throttle adjustment screw seems to be relatively snug as well. I will try cleaning everything even though it still looks brand new and perform the RPM and Frequency adjustment procedure.
What frequency is considered normal with no load present ? Can I expect to achieve the 60 hertz setting with no load and something close with say an air conditioner running ? Obviously my 87 hertz is way out of spec. I hope like heck no engine damage has occured at such a high RPM...
Thanks again for the info.

[professor95]

MrWizard wrote:
the govenor is out of adjustment

also check the springs see if any came loose or broke

This is how the governor assembly should look. As Wiz said, check for any missing springs or bent pieces.

[MrWizard]

the govenor is out of adjustment

start my spraying carb cleaner on the governor arm at the top of the engine behind the throttle bar and carb

also check the springs see if any came loose or broke

after cleaning lube the shaft where the govenor protrudes from the engine case and attaches to arm

sound like 'varnish' on the shaft at the top making it to tight and not responding to light load

there is a simple adjustment procedure it it needs to be changes after cleaning and lubing

RPM adj PDF http://www.cpeauto.com/tb/CPETB2050014%20-%20RPM%20and%20Frequency%20Adjustment.pdf

main document page http://www.cpeauto.com/techbulletin.php

[Megawatt]

Hello all... I would like your input on what my new Champ is doing. I have the C46540 I purchased one year ago thanks to this forum. I have only used it 3 times for a total of about 10 hours until this past weekend at the Nascar race when it finally got a decent workout. The problem is the generator's engine speed with no load (or little) seems to be way-way to fast.
When I first started it this weekend and hooked it up to the trailer it seemed to be a lot louder than normal(running to fast). The external voltmeter was reading aroud 120volts so I went ahead and turned the air conditioner on. The genny changed its tone and quited on down like normal with a full load. It ran for a least 4 hours like this until the Air kicked off and then it sounded like it was going to explode! The engine speed was faster than I have ever heard it. A quick check of the voltmeter still indicated around 120 volts so I ran inside and turned the Air temp down lower to get the compressor to kick in and the genny loaded up and quited back down. This kept occuring evertime the air conditioner would cycle so I got to the point I would only run it at full load then cut it off when the trailer was cold enough. My next door and rear neighbors were also using the exact same generator (popular little thing) so I had something to compare to. These two other generators were not even close (engine speed/noise with no load)compared to mine with no load. Full load engine speed/noise seemed to be very close.
When I got home yesterday and found my trusty Fluke 87 DMM (yes, I forgot it) a quick check at the 30 amp plug revealed 122 volts and about 87 hertz with no load. I connected a shop vac that draws 6.2 amps and a re-check of the voltage revealed 119 volts and 77 hertz.
I have not contacted CPE yet to inquire what could be wrong with my genny. Has anyone experienced a simular problem ?

[SonicLogic]

toprudder wrote:

professor95 wrote:
Now, if I could just figure out how to run the darn thing off of the methane from the black tank...... :h

Then you have yet another tank you will have to worry about "filling".:)

A steady diet of bean burritos should suffice. 😛

[toprudder]

professor95 wrote:
Now, if I could just figure out how to run the darn thing off of the methane from the black tank...... :h

Then you have yet another tank you will have to worry about "filling".:)