3000W Chinese Gensets Info.
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Mar-02-2005 06:20 AM
professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.
In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.
Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.
What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.
Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.
I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.
Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.
No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.
Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.
Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.
We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.
Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.
Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.
This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......
Randy
For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.
I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:
Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)
The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.
The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.
The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.
ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.
The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.
The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.
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Nov-11-2009 10:52 AM
1* 2008 Brookside by Sunnybrook 32'
1* 2002 F250 Super Duty 7.3L PSD
Husky 16K hitch, Tekonsha P3,
Firestone Ride Rite Air Springs, Trailair Equa-Flex, Champion C46540
"A bad day camping is better than a good day at work!"
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Nov-11-2009 10:25 AM
.........I have a crackerbox welder(225AmpAC\170Amp DC) that I'D like too power from a Chonda genset ; My question : what KW size of generator would I need to purchase too Power a crackerbox welder ? I was thinking 10kw , but an electrician friend said 10kw won't be big enough ! So , can you do a little mathematics and calculate the size giny I'd need to accomplish this ? , thanks , jf
1999 Travel Supreme , 33 RLSS
20K Reese , Prodigy etc.
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Nov-11-2009 09:58 AM
professor95 wrote:TKMJ wrote:
WoW! I posted this on June 13th of this year. Talk about digging in the archives! LOL!!!
I wondered where it came from. It was in the posting from Old & Slow on 11-10-09. I made the mistake of "assuming" it was very recent.
Guess Floyd has a good reason to use the screen name "Old & Slow" 🙂
Floyd is a good guy. No biggie!
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Nov-11-2009 02:52 AM
professor95 wrote:TKMJ wrote:
WoW! I posted this on June 13th of this year. Talk about digging in the archives! LOL!!!
I wondered where it came from. It was in the posting from Old & Slow on 11-10-09. I made the mistake of "assuming" it was very recent.
Guess Floyd has a good reason to use the screen name "Old & Slow" 🙂
It's often a subject of interest. How this thread goes back over the course of the past years and how much value is placed in the 'archives' so, we do try to use it to the best advantage possible. Sometimes to advance a point. Old and SLOW but still get there. Oh, we do love our Prof', still swift.
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Nov-10-2009 06:15 PM
TKMJ wrote:
WoW! I posted this on June 13th of this year. Talk about digging in the archives! LOL!!!
I wondered where it came from. It was in the posting from Old & Slow on 11-10-09. I made the mistake of "assuming" it was very recent.
Guess Floyd has a good reason to use the screen name "Old & Slow" 🙂
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.
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Nov-10-2009 03:49 PM
professor95 wrote:TKMJ wrote:
I gotta agree on running propane in a genset that is not designed for that fuel. I know several RV and aircraft guys who have done conversions and the exhaust really stings to high heaven. Almost a rotten egg smell Must be the corbon monoxide or other pollutants that are not good for your health. Far from the exhause generated from a properly made propane engine such as on a forklift.
I have been running two generators on propane for over four years. They were not initially designed for propane. Never a smell from the exhaust as you describe. IMHO, it is a perfect fuel. No storage problems, no gum, no water, no trash. Just clean ready to go fuel. Power from the generators appears to be equal to gasoline fueled.
Safe? What would be more dangerous in the system than gasoline and a leaky fuel bowl needle and seat? LPG is basically a closed system with no fumes. With the electric fuel line solenoid and vacuum actuated zero pressure regulator leakage of LPG is less of a risk than in a gasoline system.
The only down side is having to use multiple Bar-B-Q tanks for an extended camping stay.
At home the 300 gallon in-ground LPG tank connected to the Champion 13 HP engine negates having to refuel the gas tank for an extended power outage.
BTW - engine oil is exceptionally clean at recommended oil change intervals, not black like with gasoline. I have not sent any oil off for testing, but I strongly suspect changing oil at 50 hours is not needed with LPG.
Remember, I own and use two LPG fueled generators. This is first hand experience, not what somebody else has told me.
WoW! I posted this on June 13th of this year. Talk about digging in the archives! LOL!!!
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Nov-10-2009 03:09 PM
TKMJ wrote:
I gotta agree on running propane in a genset that is not designed for that fuel. I know several RV and aircraft guys who have done conversions and the exhaust really stings to high heaven. Almost a rotten egg smell Must be the corbon monoxide or other pollutants that are not good for your health. Far from the exhause generated from a properly made propane engine such as on a forklift.
I have been running two generators on propane for over four years. They were not initially designed for propane. Never a smell from the exhaust as you describe. IMHO, it is a perfect fuel. No storage problems, no gum, no water, no trash. Just clean ready to go fuel. Power from the generators appears to be equal to gasoline fueled.
Safe? What would be more dangerous in the system than gasoline and a leaky fuel bowl needle and seat? LPG is basically a closed system with no fumes. With the electric fuel line solenoid and vacuum actuated zero pressure regulator leakage of LPG is less of a risk than in a gasoline system.
The only down side is having to use multiple Bar-B-Q tanks for an extended camping stay.
At home the 300 gallon in-ground LPG tank connected to the Champion 13 HP engine negates having to refuel the gas tank for an extended power outage.
BTW - engine oil is exceptionally clean at recommended oil change intervals, not black like with gasoline. I have not sent any oil off for testing, but I strongly suspect changing oil at 50 hours is not needed with LPG.
Remember, I own and use two LPG fueled generators. This is first hand experience, not what somebody else has told me.
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.
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Nov-10-2009 02:52 PM
sickboy774 wrote:
I bought one of these Chinese jobs and wanted to know if anyone has been able to install a remote start. the unit i bought has a manual choke so that will have to be replaced. I don't plan to install it in my 5th wheel but i don't like getting out of a nice warm trailer to turn the thing off.
Yep.
How much info do you want? Is your unit electric start or will that need to be added?
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.
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Nov-10-2009 04:24 AM
TKMJ wrote:
I gotta agree on running propane in a genset that is not designed for that fuel. I know several RV and aircraft guys who have done conversions and the exhaust really stings to high heaven. Almost a rotten egg smell Must be the corbon monoxide or other pollutants that are not good for your health. Far from the exhause generated from a properly made propane engine such as on a forklift.
Concerning the useable wattage of the 3500 watt sets that are out there now, I gotta agree that the best you will get is 2400 to 2800 useable watts of power. Remember that 2400 watts is a solid 20
amp circuit at 120 volts. Usually enough to run the A/C in a coach or trailer along with running a few other items to make you comfortable.
Right now my genset is sitting in a hanger because I purchased an old Cessna 172. No power in the hanger. It's enough to run a few lights and power tools while I work on the aircraft. That little 100 pounder with the Honda knock-off sure comes in handy! The aircraft flies very well and is certified for flight. I'm just working on the cosmetics as in buffing out the paint and cleaning up the interior. Not much I can do not being a certified aircraft mechanic. But I can get her looking as good as she flies. 🙂
Don't worry, I still own the Jayco 2300 and love it! Still running great after 30 years but she is getting really long in the tooth on the interior. Lots of great family time inside that coach!
Long time since I have been here! Still looks the same.
I have my Champion converted to burn Propane or Gas. The exhaust smell seems okay with burning propane. But is it a dangerious conversion?
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Nov-10-2009 03:05 AM
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Nov-08-2009 06:20 PM
mauricedorris wrote:
Professor... I am sure that there must be some sort of transfer switch. After all, I am planning to connect this generator to the same three wires that I disconnected from the Onan that I removed. I will do some research on this.
Regarding the gas line.. I'm not being stubborn, just curious and adventurous. I wanted to have creative contribution to the process that I could share. Nonetheless, I finally hear you and will set up the return line. I actually bought another 15 feet of fuel line just incase I had to go this route.
I do appreciate the stern advice. I'm not listening, so you gotta say it louder, right?
The transfer switch should be an automatically actuating device. It most likely will have a delay of 20-30 seconds before switching over after the generator starts.
The transfer switch is designed to prevent the possible back feeding of power from the genny to the shore line or shore power to the genny -- which could be quite dangerous. Your shore line power cord will go directly to the transfer switch then to the main breaker panel. The switch is in reality a relay that has a coil actuated by power from the generator only. Thus, your shore power is simply feeding into the coach through the switch "as-is".
Maybe this will help you in your search.
The three wires you mentioned coming out from where the old generator once connected should be green, white and black. The green is the ground or grounding wire, the white is the neutral and the black the "hot" wire.
The schematic for your DuroPower generator does not show a bond between neutral and ground. Your Onan did have a bond between neutral and ground. For an application where the generator is physically mounted in the vehicle and the generator frame is physically attached to the vehicle frame bonding can provide first line fault protection by providing a current path that will trip the generator circuit breaker in a hot to ground fault situation. I personally believe an un-bonded generator with a GFCI between the genny and transfer switch is an even safer approach.
To hook your generator to your 3 wires from the coach ATS you should have a L5-30 twist lock male plug that will fit the L5-30 receptacle on the front of your generator.
On your L5-30R 120 volt twist lock outlet the lug with the blue wire will be the designated neutral and will go to the white wire. Black will go to black and green will go to green.
Based on the information you have supplied, this should get you safely powered.
I'm glad to learn that you are abandoning the single supply line fuel feed. FWIW - I have now totally eliminated gasoline (again) as a fuel for my compartmentalized Chinese genny. Even with gravity feed and external venting I was never comfortable with the fuel present in the carburetor in such a confined, heated, ignition prone environment. So, I am back to LPG with no floats or needles that is controlled by a zero pressure vacuum demand regulator and electric solenoid valve.
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.
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Nov-08-2009 04:18 PM
He is the one who WILL pay the price.
Pressurizing the fuel in a chinese genset is crazy. When something goes wrong in the middle of the night and the family is in the coach,.....................Someone is going to die!
Don't be stupid dude!!!!
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Nov-08-2009 03:41 PM
professor95 wrote:
Maurice,
I don't know any other way to say this, so here goes...... You are an apparently intelligent and talented man. But, you are not applying that intelligence to the fuel feed situation. I will try one more time out of the interest of safety for you and your family. Please, DO NOT feed the Chinese generator carburetor with a single line pressurized fuel pump. You are getting this advice from someone who has studied the design of the carburetor and knows the risks, not a casual writer with JAFO. The float bowl in your carb is cheap, thin plastic, it is not soldered brass or nylon. These floats have a reputation for cracking with the stock fuel system. When they crack, they fill with gas and drop, allowing fuel to continuously flow. The needle valve and seat are not a matched set of neoprene seals. Again, a solid metal needle and cheap plastic seat. It is NOT designed for pressure. It will leak regardless of how well it has worked for the past few hours. When it leaks gasoline will run out of the vent in the side of the fuel bowl and drain down into the compartment. The vapors will accumulate in an ignition rich environment. Is it really worth the stubbornest against doing it right and the risk?
Professor... I am sure that there must be some sort of transfer switch. After all, I am planning to connect this generator to the same three wires that I disconnected from the Onan that I removed. I will do some research on this.
Regarding the gas line.. I'm not being stubborn, just curious and adventurous. I wanted to have creative contribution to the process that I could share. Nonetheless, I finally hear you and will set up the return line. I actually bought another 15 feet of fuel line just incase I had to go this route.
I do appreciate the stern advice. I'm not listening, so you gotta say it louder, right?
89 Tioga 27ft.
1 Wife, 2 Kids, 1 small dog, no plants
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Nov-07-2009 05:47 PM
You have two circuit breakers joined by a single tie bar (shown in yellow). There is nothing I can see that would tell me the amperage.
But, there is a third breaker for the 20 amp duplex outlet marked 20 amps (green). This leads me to believe that the breaker pair with the tie bar is in excess of 20 amps.
You cannot wire the generator directly into the MH unless you have a transfer switch. Your old Onan set-up may have included an automatic transfer switch. If it remains, it would be helpful to know the make and model number so I can look up a schematic. Otherwise, you will need to plug your 30 amp RV power cord into the generator when needed. You can do this by replacing the 15-30 twist lock outlet with a 30 amp TT outlet-- which will require enlarging the opening -- or making/buying an adapter to use the 15-30 outlet and change to a female 30 amp TT.
I don't know any other way to say this, so here goes...... You are an apparently intelligent and talented man. But, you are not applying that intelligence to the fuel feed situation. I will try one more time out of the interest of safety for you and your family. Please, DO NOT feed the Chinese generator carburetor with a single line pressurized fuel pump. You are getting this advice from someone who has studied the design of the carburetor and knows the risks, not a casual writer with JAFO. The float bowl in your carb is cheap, thin plastic, it is not soldered brass or nylon. These floats have a reputation for cracking with the stock fuel system. When they crack, they fill with gas and drop, allowing fuel to continuously flow. The needle valve and seat are not a matched set of neoprene seals. Again, a solid metal needle and cheap plastic seat. It is NOT designed for pressure. It will leak regardless of how well it has worked for the past few hours. When it leaks gasoline will run out of the vent in the side of the fuel bowl and drain down into the compartment. The vapors will accumulate in an ignition rich environment. Is it really worth the stubbornest against doing it right and the risk?
Everything else looks good.
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.
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Nov-07-2009 07:10 AM
gasser9 wrote:
Do not forget that flow & pressure are two COMPLETLY different annimals!!!!!!
if you cut back the flow it just takes longer for the pressure to build!!!!!
The best solution would be an adjustable fuel pressure pressure regulator available fronAdvance, Pep Boys, or online at Jegs, Summit, Northern or the like. Be VERY CAREFUL you are buildin a bomb!
Go to lpg it's much safer in this instance.
Yes... I know about the difference betweeen flow and pressure. I'm trying to match the flow of the gravity feed tank setup. I have the pump with the lowest psi available. I can only adjust the flow. Its just a test at this point. I'm watching it.
I do have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator from Holley. I paid $35 and had to buy $10 more dollars worth of fittings. However, I wanted to see if I could come up with an alternative. Its fun to try these things and see the results (success or failure).
I mean, if this were only about the generator, then I would have written a check for a new Onan and would have been done with this already.
89 Tioga 27ft.
1 Wife, 2 Kids, 1 small dog, no plants