3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[MrWizard]

spare parts are 'always' a good idea, when dealing with equipment that might be used in an emg situation.

spark plug, AVR, carb parts, etc... excellent idea to have parts, because when you need it the most is when it will be hard to get them.

NOT because of 'quality or age'

[Old___Slow]

The question at hand is that the present Chinese carb float may be of plastic to light for safe long term use with the heat and all. And may crack with age. Lot's of plactic parts crack with age. Maybe sometimes a bad batch? A simple change out of a $4.22 part may be worth while?

[MrWizard]

all the way back to the 80's, my Honda moped & scooter carbs have plastic floats, i'm talking originals in 30 yr old carbs

i haven't seen a brass float in a small engine carb since the 60's

[Old___Slow]

Okay, I'll be the genny pig. I ordered a carb float to compare with the Champion C46540. $8.95 for Shipping kinda steep. May be cheap in the end?

[professor95]

Carburetors and fuel system parts for Honda engines.

I can't determine if they are OEM Honda or Chinese aftermarket.

Parts for Chinese 3000 watt class gensets will be GX160 or GX200.

Great prices.

[jarheadfor4]

I just got back from the second weekend at deer camp. My Champion ran like a champ. We kept the batteries charged on our Jayco and also the batteries on my uncle's camper. The Champ still has 1/4 tank of gas after 6 days of battery charging. Now if I could just figure out how to aim the satellite dish in the woods (too many trees). Then we could keep up with our football too!

[Old___Slow]

Well, it seems to me that the difference of $52 in the price of a true Honda carb and the clone is cheap insurance. We never hear of a bad Honda carb. Some of the Honda engines have a fuel pump, if I am correct. So some pressure? Anyway, guess it's not true, when there is a will, there is a way. Maybe need a different tree. There goes my hope to see someone use a less expensive replacement for the OEM factory placed gensets by using the fuel line and wires already in place. Well, true hope never dies.:)

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:


It will be interesting to find your results of the loop fuel line to supply the gen a near zero pressure feed to the carb. This system has been mentioned for some time but afaik no one has reported a trial run. Also, perhaps the carb in your DuroPower may be of better quality. The thin plactic floats are a concern. Will a real Honda carb work? We hope no reports come in of a fire.

Floyd

I have made a fuel loop and tested it. Posted it with a photo a long time back. It worked great!

I seriously doubt that you will find a better quality carburetor on a Duropower. All of the Chinese generator carburetors are made by two companies that supply all of the Chinese engine builders.

The OEM Honda carburetor is extremely expensive. $87.00 compared to a Chinese clone cost of $35.00. OEM Honda floats are not brass but "may" be a better quality than clones. Only way to tell is to buy a Honda float and compare.

I would NOT want to use a pressure system with a OEM Honda carburetor either.

[tvman44]

I still have one of those too.

ol Bombero-JC wrote:
TS - not the answer/s you're looking for, but WEN products (Chicago?) have been around for a long, long time.

(I still have a 1/2" drill I bought in the early 60's. Still going strong!)

WEN products have been sold in unusual places over the years.

Maybe search for a phone number / tech line?

~

JC

[Old___Slow]

professor95 wrote:

mauricedorris wrote:

Professor... I am sure that there must be some sort of transfer switch. After all, I am planning to connect this generator to the same three wires that I disconnected from the Onan that I removed. I will do some research on this.

Regarding the gas line.. I'm not being stubborn, just curious and adventurous. I wanted to have creative contribution to the process that I could share. Nonetheless, I finally hear you and will set up the return line. I actually bought another 15 feet of fuel line just incase I had to go this route.

I do appreciate the stern advice. I'm not listening, so you gotta say it louder, right?

The transfer switch should be an automatically actuating device. It most likely will have a delay of 20-30 seconds before switching over after the generator starts.

The transfer switch is designed to prevent the possible back feeding of power from the genny to the shore line or shore power to the genny -- which could be quite dangerous. Your shore line power cord will go directly to the transfer switch then to the main breaker panel. The switch is in reality a relay that has a coil actuated by power from the generator only. Thus, your shore power is simply feeding into the coach through the switch "as-is".

Maybe this will help you in your search.

The three wires you mentioned coming out from where the old generator once connected should be green, white and black. The green is the ground or grounding wire, the white is the neutral and the black the "hot" wire.

The schematic for your DuroPower generator does not show a bond between neutral and ground. Your Onan did have a bond between neutral and ground. For an application where the generator is physically mounted in the vehicle and the generator frame is physically attached to the vehicle frame bonding can provide first line fault protection by providing a current path that will trip the generator circuit breaker in a hot to ground fault situation. I personally believe an un-bonded generator with a GFCI between the genny and transfer switch is an even safer approach.

To hook your generator to your 3 wires from the coach ATS you should have a L5-30 twist lock male plug that will fit the L5-30 receptacle on the front of your generator.

On your L5-30R 120 volt twist lock outlet the lug with the blue wire will be the designated neutral and will go to the white wire. Black will go to black and green will go to green.

Based on the information you have supplied, this should get you safely powered.

I'm glad to learn that you are abandoning the single supply line fuel feed. FWIW - I have now totally eliminated gasoline (again) as a fuel for my compartmentalized Chinese genny. Even with gravity feed and external venting I was never comfortable with the fuel present in the carburetor in such a confined, heated, ignition prone environment. So, I am back to LPG with no floats or needles that is controlled by a zero pressure vacuum demand regulator and electric solenoid valve.

Maurice,



It will be interesting to find your results of the loop fuel line to supply the gen a near zero pressure feed to the carb. This system has been mentioned for some time but afaik no one has reported a trial run. Also, perhaps the carb in your DuroPower may be of better quality. The thin plactic floats are a concern. Will a real Honda carb work? We hope no reports come in of a fire.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

TS - not the answer/s you're looking for, but WEN products (Chicago?) have been around for a long, long time.

(I still have a 1/2" drill I bought in the early 60's. Still going strong!)

WEN products have been sold in unusual places over the years.

Maybe search for a phone number / tech line?

~

JC

[TeamSlacker]

Well I haven't really been in this thread, since the first couple pages. That's a good sign, as that means my 'powerwise3500' has been running till now. I haven't been able to find a way to search just this thread, and reading all 800 pages now.. eh... So maybe someone has some thoughts on the problem.

-My brother has a 'Wen' brand, almost identical to my Powerwise. His with only 50 hours on it started acting up. Start up motor, let sit for a second, and the AC pilot lights would start to turn on, sounded like the motor was laboring (like there was a load connected, but there wasn't) and then the pilot lights would go back out. This would repeat as long as you left it run.
-I suspected the AVR, so I pulled it from mine, and installed in his. This time the pilot lights stayed lit, but the motor still sounded like it had a load. I left it run for a bit, till i smelled 'burnt wires' lol.. and shut it down. I ordered a new AVR and installed, but it still acted like the original AVR. When I pulled the end cap back off the head, it looked like the armature windings got hot, had some black coloring.
-So I put my original AVR in my powerwise. Fired it up to use it one weekend, it was running fine for a while. We were sitting in the trailer with AC lights on, no big loads, all of a sudden the lights started dimming, and then went out. Went outside only to smell burnt wire coming from my genset.
-looks lime my armature got hot enuf to acutally melt some of the plastic forms in it.
-I tested my powerwise brush rings, iirc, I had open across the 2 brush rings, and also open from either ring to ground.
-I tested the WEN, and can't remember the exact readings, but was something like 8ohm across the two rings, and I had like 2ohm from one ring to ground, and 6ohm from the other ring to ground.

I suspect my arm is burnt thru somewhere, and my brothers wen is shorted to ground somewhere.

So the questions are: (I found some testing web pages, but nothing specific to the 3kw heads)

-What resistance readings should I have on the Armature, and on the stator?
-Is there any test I can do on the AVR to verify they are good?
-Has anyone found a parts supply for these? I found some complete heads on ebay, also norther tool, but haven't been able to find just the armature.

[TKMJ]

quabillion wrote:

jimmyfred wrote:
Question for Professor 95......

.........I have a crackerbox welder(225AmpAC\170Amp DC) that I'D like too power from a Chonda genset ; My question : what KW size of generator would I need to purchase too Power a crackerbox welder ? I was thinking 10kw , but an electrician friend said 10kw won't be big enough ! So , can you do a little mathematics and calculate the size giny I'd need to accomplish this ? , thanks , jf

Although I am not Randy (professor95), I feel I can answer your question somewhat.

I have tried to run a "crackerbox" 225 Lincoln with several size generators. What I have found is that a 6KW will run the welder, but not correctly. The arc seems weak and the penetration is less. Turning the amp knob to a higher setting has no effect. The same results happened with a 10KW generator, but to a lesser extent.
A 14KW generator ran the welder perfectly, I could tell no difference between it and grid power as far as laying the bead goes.

I suspect this has to do with the fact that welder transformers are known to have an extremely low power factor rating.

Makes me wonder if a 10KW gen will power the welder if a bank of hard start caps are installed. It sure makes my 3500 genny breath easier when my coach A/C starts up. One would think that the initial strike of the arc would be the same type power draw as a compressor rotor.

[jimmyfred]

quabillion wrote:

jimmyfred wrote:
Question for Professor 95......

.........I have a crackerbox welder(225AmpAC\170Amp DC) that I'D like too power from a Chonda genset ; My question : what KW size of generator would I need to purchase too Power a crackerbox welder ? I was thinking 10kw , but an electrician friend said 10kw won't be big enough ! So , can you do a little mathematics and calculate the size giny I'd need to accomplish this ? , thanks , jf

Although I am not Randy (professor95), I feel I can answer your question somewhat.

I have tried to run a "crackerbox" 225 Lincoln with several size generators. What I have found is that a 6KW will run the welder, but not correctly. The arc seems weak and the penetration is less. Turning the amp knob to a higher setting has no effect. The same results happened with a 10KW generator, but to a lesser extent.
A 14KW generator ran the welder perfectly, I could tell no difference between it and grid power as far as laying the bead goes.

I suspect this has to do with the fact that welder transformers are known to have an extremely low power factor rating.

.........Qb , thanks for the help ! A 15 to 20kw is in the range I will start looking for . My total cost for the crackerbox plus the genset will be about 1/3 the cost of a Miller bobcat or lincoln equivalent model , engine driven welder .
.........I've seen an engine driven DC welder with the Chonda engine somewhere , may have been a Duropower for around $999 or so . Thanks for your help . , jf

[quabillion]

jimmyfred wrote:
Question for Professor 95......

.........I have a crackerbox welder(225AmpAC\170Amp DC) that I'D like too power from a Chonda genset ; My question : what KW size of generator would I need to purchase too Power a crackerbox welder ? I was thinking 10kw , but an electrician friend said 10kw won't be big enough ! So , can you do a little mathematics and calculate the size giny I'd need to accomplish this ? , thanks , jf

Although I am not Randy (professor95), I feel I can answer your question somewhat.

I have tried to run a "crackerbox" 225 Lincoln with several size generators. What I have found is that a 6KW will run the welder, but not correctly. The arc seems weak and the penetration is less. Turning the amp knob to a higher setting has no effect. The same results happened with a 10KW generator, but to a lesser extent.
A 14KW generator ran the welder perfectly, I could tell no difference between it and grid power as far as laying the bead goes.

I suspect this has to do with the fact that welder transformers are known to have an extremely low power factor rating.