3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[jasult]

For now, I used a thick truck mud flap under the Champ for support.
Seemed to work good for now. I will change things 50 times before I am happy :h

[pritch272]

Prof, it looks like you used composite for the floor of the cargo rack, I like that idea.

Ironically, just today pulled from the attic the old boat cover, (I don't need it anymore as I keep the boat in a 36 foot garage), the old cover has seen 7 years of use, and has been sewn many times (with dental floss). Anyhow, I needed a new cover for the champ as the old one (a cheap grill cover) tore, so I started cutting out pieces. Got out the sewing machine and am making a cover. Champion wanted $24.95 for a cover, plus almost $12 to ship it. Not going to pay that, not now, anyway. I'll post some pics when finished.

[tvman44]

The ginny gets a much smoother ride in the rear of the truck than on the rear of the trailer.

jasult wrote:

SonicLogic wrote:
Another issue pertaining to running a genny on the rear bumper with the vehicle in motion is that the gas cap on the fuel tank is vented and it will leak fuel as the gas sloshes back and forth in the tank. It’s an obvious fire hazard.

These are all the things I will want to hear and learn. I will be traveling with the Champ mounted on carrier for easy transport and only use it running on warm days if needed and if I am convinced it is safe.
Guys are also running these in back of truck bed going down the road so it is not just a rear bumper thing you are against I gather

[professor95]

SonicLogic wrote:
Another issue pertaining to running a genny on the rear bumper with the vehicle in motion is that the gas cap on the fuel tank is vented and it will leak fuel as the gas sloshes back and forth in the tank. It’s an obvious fire hazard.

The gas tank caps on the new C5 Remote Start models are not vented. They have a screw-on cap with a vent and tube in the middle of the tank that goes back to a carbon vapor container. Anyway, back to the idea, the tanks are not all that expensive and will fit the earlier Champion frames. The vent can be used with a marine fuel tank as-is for extended run if the fuel gauge in the Champ tank is completely sealed.

While the older tank WILL leak some fuel as it is bounced down the road it is not a significant amount. Of course, any gas that ignites becomes significant. But, the amount of fuel lost is minimal.

This is a photo of one of my earlier rear bumper mounts. A cover is over the generator which is on the right side of the carrier. The covers are available from CPE as an accessory item. Call them for price.

The plywood piece in the second photo sat over the rails on top to keep water from pooling on the cover.





I could run the genny while moving but it did not cool as well as it did in a stationary location.

[pritch272]

SonicLogic wrote:
Another issue pertaining to running a genny on the rear bumper with the vehicle in motion is that the gas cap on the fuel tank is vented and it will leak fuel as the gas sloshes back and forth in the tank. It’s an obvious fire hazard.

Didn't realize this. I've run the genny and AC a few times while traveling to get the trailer cool before we get to the campground.

Is there an alternative cap that will eliminate any possible spills while venting?

[jasult]

SonicLogic wrote:
Another issue pertaining to running a genny on the rear bumper with the vehicle in motion is that the gas cap on the fuel tank is vented and it will leak fuel as the gas sloshes back and forth in the tank. It’s an obvious fire hazard.

These are all the things I will want to hear and learn. I will be traveling with the Champ mounted on carrier for easy transport and only use it running on warm days if needed and if I am convinced it is safe.
Guys are also running these in back of truck bed going down the road so it is not just a rear bumper thing you are against I gather

[SonicLogic]

Another issue pertaining to running a genny on the rear bumper with the vehicle in motion is that the gas cap on the fuel tank is vented and it will leak fuel as the gas sloshes back and forth in the tank. It’s an obvious fire hazard.

[rowekmr]

I have the Champ 3500 also with the RV plug. Is the 120V household outlet still useable while my RV is plugged into the RV outlet with the A/C running?

[jasult]

OK I mounted my Champ 3500 today and was impressed with the results.
Started up good, ran good and then I turned on the 13.5 AC and herd a slight grunt and then air worked great. I fabbed up a new bumper last week and installed a carrier. I also carry large cooler on the carrier and it is balanced good. Here are a few pics.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

~

*If* that means the Robin Subaru 3200i . . . sells for about $1800. to $2+K. Same range as the red & blue inverter gens.

You inherited a nice(er) gen than you think!
($ = about *4* Champs)

~

[gasser9]

For those that want a little higher end inverter generator you might look at the Subaru 3200ie --- John Deere paints it green, Onan paints it Yellow & Subaru paints it yellow. Rated at 23.3 A or 2800 VA -- 1.0 power factor. Has hour/volt/freq/oload meter, electric start (optional) at around 100 pounds.
Out at the Cocapah Casino everyone thought it was quieter under load than the 3000 Yammies & Hondas. I think it is more the pitch than volume but you can carry on a conversation 10' away without raising your voice (running 15K A/C & 1K micro). All this at about 1/2 the price of a Yammie & more power too!!!
I was all set to get a Champ until I inhereted this one from my uncle.

[tvman44]

Professor, I did something similar on our 5er only I just did it to the 15,000 btu in the bedroom that way I can plug my 50 amp service into a 30 amp service thu an adapter and run a #12 extension cord from the pedestal 20 amp recptacle to the added circuit and be able to run both 15,000 btu units when their is no 50 amp service. Works well. Also I can also put the Champion in the bed of the truck if we wilkl be driving most of the day in the heat I can run the bedroom A/C so the 5er can be cooled down when we arrive.

[professor95]

I removed BOTH of the cables going to the breakers for the 15,000 BTU and 6,000 BTU rooftop A/C's in my fifth wheel and installed a 20 amp outlet and plug in the basement. This is a loop that allows me to unplug either of the A/C's and then plug it directly into a generator.

The value here is the ability to not only isolate but run separate generators or inverters depending upon the power requirements needed.

For example, I can run the big A/C from the Champ 3500 and the smaller one from the 2,000Ti Kipor independently and still power the rest of the RV from the inverter and battery pack as needed (water pump, fan, lights). This sheds a lot of parasitic load and allows the generator an extra margin of safety. The converter/battery charger had a 120 pigtail on it that plugged into the back of the breaker panel as OEM equipment. Thus, I can independently power the charger/converter as needed.

Not all RV's are configured so the power panel/breaker box are as accessible as mine. I have a 50 amp service and the back of the breaker box faces the basement so it was easy to add the loops.

Sometimes you do need to modify the power system in your RV to avoid having to use a much louder, fuel thirsty, larger wattage generator.

[SonicLogic]

You need to determine the brand and the model of the A/C unit you have in your RV. For example, the Coleman Mach 15 puts out 15,000 BTU’s and draws about 16 amps. The Duo-Therm Brisk Air 13,500 BTU A/C draws about 14.5 amps. Once you know the brand and the model, you can look up the specifications on the Internet.

[ATS_Aaron]

I don't. How can I find out?