3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

Harbor Freight Tools has changed their policy for the 20% off coupons widely distributed in Highways, Popular Mechanics, Field and Stream, etc.

The fine print now informs holders that they can only use one coupon per person per day. Formerly is was one coupon per transaction, meaning you could make multiple single transactions for each coupon you held. NO MORE! (I found this out today while at their store in Richmond, VA - It really PO'ed me since I had a pocket full of 20% off coupons :M )

The 20% off coupons can NO LONGER BE USED with generator and air compressor purchases. They are claiming that honoring them for these items would result in selling below their cost.

A 900 watt 2-stroke generator similar to the one I wrote about a few days back is now on sale for $98.00 at the retail store. As the Wizard noted, not a bad deal if you need power for a hedge trimmer, loaner or simply tent camp and want a little 120 VAC or 12 VDC juice to charge a battery or run a fan, TV or coffee maker.

[professor95]

I was in our local Northern Tool retail store earlier this afternoon (Richmond, VA on Midlothina Turnpike).

This store had a display with 14 new 1600/1800 watt ETQ Digital Generators clearance priced at $198.00 each.

Price is only while supply lasts. I do not know if other stores are doing the same or not. On-line price is still $599.00.

[tvman44]

Champion comes through again 🙂

[jasult]

Professor and other's!!
I now have the answer to my problem on previous page. I had a problem with the champion 3500/4000 stalling under load. It would run fine when no load. Today I put in new spark plug and some carb cleaner and ran ity for an hour or so and the problem was still there when I would run this grinder
After more frustration and running the grinder, I realized that the genny would only stall as I released the trigger on grinder. If I held the trigger down for ever it never quit but every time I released the trigger it would quit. I called the toll free number on top of the Champion and spoke to a great guy named Adam at ext 154. I explained to him what was going on and he instantly told me that the 15 amp grinder was not the problem however when I release the load there is a voltage spike and these champs have a safety device to protect any thing plugged in if there is a spike and shuts down genny. He said that big electric motors can cause this spike. Adam from tech told me to unhook the black wire quick connect coming from the shut off switch and it will not quit any more.Just use choke to kill it. He was right, problem went away. He advised me to only disconnect the black wire when running big electric motors. All other times keep the black wire hooked as to protect any thing from real voltage spikes. I am very pleased with CPE tech support.

[Old___Slow]

After further checking, I do believe the engine in my Champion C46540 is Lifan. I also find Lifan sells their engines on the open market but find no Champion (CPE) engines on the market. Other sources say, in the past, Lifan and Champion have had a close connection. Any comments?

[Old___Slow]

Prof,

Thanks for the report concerning Lifan and Champion (CPE). The question in my small mind has always been. Why no Patents listed for the Champion engines? Lifan lists a large number and no secret there. Like the rocker arms. I want to believe in CPE as a genuine engine mfg (builder). One thought, their engines need a Champion spark plug.:B The plug that came with my C46540 long ago was found to be 'no good' and was trashed. Had to go with AC. No problems following the replacement. After 4 years my Champion still puts out around 2600w for 30 minutes or more. I read on the internet:) that the NEC for 2011 states a continuous 'time rating' to be 3 hours or more. That's interesting.

[professor95]

blksmith wrote:
I have the Lifan 2800 inverter.
The idle doesn't drop down much from full throtle. Does anyone know how to adjust this. Ifound the screw that will let the idle drop but the electronic pot won't let it go that low.
Tj

If the screw adjustment makes no difference, you most likely have a defective stepper motor or, worse yet, problems within the inverter module that control the stepper.

The current crop of inverter modules coming out of China are programmable via software. Thus, changes can be made to the inverter module's decision making process on a running change basis as the manufacturer finds necessary. This is similar to the ability to "reflash" the PCM in one of today's cars or trucks, printers, cameras, etc. The down side is I do not know of any link or open source software so that you or I could perform a reflash or upgrade.

I suggest that you get in touch with your Lifan Technical Service department to discover if there is something going on with the stepper or module itself that can be field corrected. If not, they "may" have an exchange program available for upgrading the module without having to fork over several hundred $$$ for a new one.

Keep in mind my relationship with Lifian is minimal - this is just "generic" advice. Your results may vary.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

ATS_Aaron wrote:
Champions on sale for $240 with free shipping!

http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?p=37252665#post37252665

Aaron

Good info Aaron! . .:B

Use the icon that looks like goggles - 7th over from the right -
to make it "clickable"

Clicky

Then to the Advance Auto Parts site (link).

Make sure to enter the P20 code - which results in $239.99 with
free shipping (if no retail store close to your zip).

~

[blksmith]

I have the Lifan 2800 inverter.
The idle doesn't drop down much from full throtle. Does anyone know how to adjust this. Ifound the screw that will let the idle drop but the electronic pot won't let it go that low.
Tj

[professor95]

Max49 wrote:
Thanks Professor, I never thought about Amazon for this. After I put it in my cart, they showed this, http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Cable-Generator-Adapter-Splitter/dp/B000IUL9P2/ref=pd_luc_sim_00_02_t_lh
Can you see any disadvantage to that. It's a little cheaper but not as neat of a package and I don't know if I need 2 plugs. I have both in the cart while I think about it.

Which ever one you like. The one I cited was only an example.

Keep in mind that whatever you choose will lower the amperage capacity of the L5-30 outlet to what the rating is on the final outlet. In this case it will be 15 amps, not 30. It is all a product of resistance present and heat generation as current rises.

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:


'AllExperts.com/small engines and China Dave aka Expert David R-Globaltek LLC'

He states this, Champion branded engines come from 'Lifan', just one of 8/10 major engine mfg (builders). Some of the others are,
Loncin,Zongshen,Rato,LCT,Yamakoyo,Ducar,Grayhound' and then we see JD on some engines . All listed as 'copies' of the Honda engine. My take on the Champion (CPE) equipment success is partly due to a vary good engine supply.

A note to the previous post. I too have noticed some 3000w Chinese gensets list their engines as 5.5hp and others 6.5hp. So, perhaps we would better be served looking at the listed 'cc'. What might be a good hp rating for the 79cc engine?

HP ratings are disappearing for small engines. You will find many listings that now show "previously rated HP". Torque is the new rating preference. Of course, displacement is straight forward and we tend to associate larger displacement engines with greater torque. The 200 cc engines were previously rated at 6.5 HP while the 160 cc engines were 5.5 HP. There were some 216 cc engines produced by JD that advertised 7 HP.

As to the HP of a 79cc engine..... "Previous ratings" were typically 2.5 HP. Results can vary.

As to the statement you quoted by "China Dave", it is NOT correct. I have found several of his reports to be contradictory to my research findings. Champion's GX series engines come from castings formed by Liaoyuan and are machined and assembled only in the CPE facility. Lifan has nothing to do with the CPE GX engine. The following is a photo I posted several years back of the casting name inside of a CPE 196cc GX engine.



I have seen videos and photos of the CPE engine being machined and tested but was not allowed to keep them or share them. There are some things that I have been asked to keep confidential that I honor.

One trait you will find on CPE engines and components is the CPE logo prominently infused as either part of the castings or stampings such as the carburetor body, valve cover, etc. They are manufactured to be brand specific and are not grabbed from the common pool of parts and pieces that make up many of the other engines you cited.



While I was looking for the above photos in my library, I happened to find the one below. They show both the 2nd and 3rd generation rocker arms used exclusively in CPE engines. These heavy duty designs replaced the failure prone OEM Honda design that is still found extensively in other Chinese engines, including the Lifan, JD, Loncin and Honda GX160 & GX200.





Recently I have been receiving reports of some Chinese engines that are now using plastic camshafts and gears. Yet another way to lower the production cost a few pennies but stick the consumer with big $$$ when the component fails. While CPE is apparently making changes to reduce failure, other manufacturers are making changes that add to the number of failure incidents. Go figure.

[ATS_Aaron]

Champions on sale for $240 with free shipping!

http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?p=37252665#post37252665

Aaron

[Max49]

Thanks Professor, I never thought about Amazon for this. After I put it in my cart, they showed this, http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Cable-Generator-Adapter-Splitter/dp/B000IUL9P2/ref=pd_luc_sim_00_02_t_lh
Can you see any disadvantage to that. It's a little cheaper but not as neat of a package and I don't know if I need 2 plugs. I have both in the cart while I think about it.

[professor95]

Max49 wrote:


I believe this is a 25 Amp 120 volt receptacle. It's pretty much wasted for me because I have nothing with this kind of plug, Lowes or Home Depot have no adapter to make it a normal plug. Does any one know where I can get an adapter to make this 25 amp plug useable. The other normal plugs are only 15 amps.

Your plug is a 30 amp 120 volt NEMA L5-30, which is a twist and lock blade type plug designed to keep the cord from falling out due to vibration or a tug.

There are a number of different NEMA configurations that depend on amperage, voltage and grounding.

Amazon shows the adapter you are looking for here for $25.70. I doubt that you could buy the individual pieces to make your own adapter for less.

[Max49]

I believe this is a 25 Amp 120 volt receptacle. It's pretty much wasted for me because I have nothing with this kind of plug, Lowes or Home Depot have no adapter to make it a normal plug. Does any one know where I can get an adapter to make this 25 amp plug useable. The other normal plugs are only 15 amps.