3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[MrRchitty]

professor 95 wrote:


Your model also has the new over voltage protection module installed. A great safety feature if the AVR fails to keep the voltage from soaring and blowing out any connected equipment.

I have the same model I bought about a year ago. Would mine have that same feature?

Great generator, by the way!

[greengasradio]

Thanks professor95!

I'm going to contact CPE tech first thing monday and i like the idea of a key'd switch approach.

Again, I appreciate all the effort and contributions you have made to this thread!

I will post findings and results.

thx,

Eric

[professor95]

greengasradio wrote:
I just had 2 quick questions before I fire it up. When I un-packaged it and inspected I noticed 2 things. First, the ignition switch seems a bit flimsy and keeps popping out of the socket. Second, one corner mount of the tank appears to be bent a bit. I don't believe it was shipping or handling related because there are not paint chips and I really don't think its a big deal but i posted a pic anyways.
I don't want to return and I was just wondering if there was a more durable ignition switch I could put in place or is the normal one good enough (assuming i replace this one).
Thanks for all the great work!
eric

Eric, welcome aboard!

The tank looks defective and it appears the seam is broken open. I would suggest calling CPE tech support and explaining the problem. You may need to e-mail the photo to them. They most likely will ship out a new tank if you don't mind making the swap yourself. It is easy, unbolt the cross brace from the frame at the fuel petcock end, take out the four tank bolts and disconnect the fuel line. The tank easily slides out. Unscrew the petcock, put it in the new tank and slide it back into the frame.

The ignition switch is just a simple single pole single throw switch. It should not pop out. Only problem is to replace the switch you must remove the front panel and the protector box behind the panel. Of course, if it is poping out you may be able to replace it without doing all the other steps. CPE will send you a new switch if you think the one you have is defective.

Some owners have removed the OEM switch and replaced it with a key switch. It is an extra level of safety if you think someone else might fool around with the generator.

Your model also has the new over voltage protection module installed. A great safety feature if the AVR fails to keep the voltage from soaring and blowing out any connected equipment.

[greengasradio]

Hello all,
I've been reading this forum for around a year now and I have to thank the professor and all the other contributors on how fantastic this thread is!
I just pulled the trigger on a champion 46515 and I have to tell you its prettier in person and all the pics don't do it justice lol.
I paid 239 online from some advice and rebates I saw here. I just had 2 quick questions before I fire it up. When I un-packaged it and inspected I noticed 2 things. First, the ignition switch seems a bit flimsy and keeps popping out of the socket. Second, one corner mount of the tank appears to be bent a bit. I don't believe it was shipping or handling related because there are not paint chips and I really don't think its a big deal but i posted a pic anyways.
I don't want to return and I was just wondering if there was a more durable ignition switch I could put in place or is the normal one good enough (assuming i replace this one).
Thanks for all the great work!
eric

[Old___Slow]

professor95 wrote:
Quote > ....bottom line, are these generators any good? <

They are not Onans, Hondas or Yamahas. But, I now believe they are a fair choice for the TT or 5er owner who wants “occasional” generator power to run an air conditioner when no shore power is available. They would also serve someone well as a home backup generator to keep a freezer and frig running in a power outage.

I did buy one yesterday, and these are my findings:

The genset cost $249.00 at Pep-Boys in Richmond, VA (ELIM/ELM3000)

You are able to dedicate all available power to a single 110 volt circuit/outlet, giving you the ability to run your 13,500 BTU AC and a few other devices up to about 22 amps. I did some test and verified this. You will, of course, need to use a "dogbone" adapter to mate your 30 amp RV plut to the 20 amp generator plug.

The generator has an “acceptable” noise level when compared to other available gensets. It is certainly quieter than the so called consumer and commercial models out there. But again, it isn’t as quite as a Honda EU2000 or 3000. I do believe further noise reduction is possible by strategic placement of some sound absorbing panels close to the generator. (2x4 foot fiberglass drop in ceiling pannels work great for this - just tack them together with duct tape but be sure to leave enough space for engine cooling.)

I measured voltage under varied operating conditions and it was stable at 112.8 volts.

I measured frequency with a frequency counter – When put under load, it would drop to 55 Hz for 2-3 seconds and then return to a stable 62 Hz.

I observed the output, both under load and without load, on an oscilloscope. The wave form is NOT a perfectly clean sine wave. It actually looks more like a “dull” saw tooth wave with an obvious dip at about 30 degrees and again at 210 degrees (180 degrees represents the upper or positive part of the sine wave, the remaining 180 degrees represents the negative part of the sine wave cycle.) It would not be a good generator for running sensitive electronic equipment (like in a hospital or lab environment). But, few RVs carry such equipment. There should be no problem with TV sets, computers or conventional induction motors.

Repair parts are available from ELIM out of Buffalo NY. ELIM claims the engine is identical to the Honda engine, supposedly made legally under a license from Honda. Thus, engine parts should be available at most power equipment suppliers.

The only real negative I stumbled across is the 110 volt duplex outlet supplied on the generator front panel will not accept a conventional 2 prong polarized plug (It will accept non-polarized and 3 prong grounded plugs). I swapped out the supplied outlet with a commercial grade 20 amp duplex from Home Depot..

A plus is the genset comes with two 110 volt caps (plugs) and a twist lock 220 volt cap as well. This saves about $25 bucks in additional cost.

Pep Boys will replace the unit with another if it proves to be defective within 90 days. You can’t return it for money back if you have put gas and oil in the unit.

IMHO, DO NOT consider the 3,500 watt NIKOTA generator Pep-Boys sells for $299.00. It will only handle 1,200 watts on an individual circuit, which is not enough to sustain an RV air conditioner.

One thing for sure, if the ELM3000 it flops out in a few years you won’t feel obligated to spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars to fix it like you would a Honda or Onan. Just give it to Goodwill and take a tax write-off!

Hope this helps.

This is what old bored folks at home due. Read old posts from 3000w Chinese Gensets info:h Anywho, it's seems little has changed with this class of genset. My Champion C46540 has the 30a RV Rec'pt 120/240 switch and AVR. Must be clean enough power as I have not ruined any equipment in years of service. Several comments. At first the Champ was used to power the RV. It would operate the 13,500 btu A/C along with other items up to it's limit. It is now used in the genhouse not serviced by the grid and with a long extention cord serves as power to the stick house for the fridge and a light or two if needed.

Champion C46540:

Sound level? Panels built for about $30 for material from HD and Lowes (the black 1/2" x4'x8' sheet sound board) knocks off 6/8 dBA.

Longevity? 4 years with plenty of loaded hours.

So here is the deal. Pretty quiet, powers up to 2600/2800w and not a throw-away. And I paid $279.00 So far a real value buy.

Would like to have a light weight gen but most new Inverters, for me, the old & slow, don't do the trick. Straighten me out, perhaps.

[Dan86300zxt]

JConatser wrote:

Dan86300zxt wrote:
... I also have a switch to kill the ignition of the generator should it get too warm...

Just wondering... will loads be dumped prior to killing the ignition?

No loads will be dumped when the High Temperature switch trips the "On/Off" connection for the ignition for the Generator engine. The engine will stall just as if the engine had a low oil scenario or an output over load scenario.
*I didn't see the need to spend the large extra chunk of money to handle a/c circuit switching, as the primary item the Generator will be operating is the Progressive Dynamics 60 amp battery charger.(I don't have any loads that will require powering off the generator only and my set-up for is based around (6) 6 volt 220 AH batteries and a 2000/4000 pure sine wave dc/ac inverter.)
**Remember, this is a smaller 105cc 4 stroke 2000 watt digital inverter generator(variable rpm)...slightly different technology than the typical 3000 watt genset.

[JConatser]

Dan86300zxt wrote:
... I also have a switch to kill the ignition of the generator should it get too warm...

Just wondering... will loads be dumped prior to killing the ignition?

[RTompkins3]

Dan86300zxt wrote:

No worries, I knew what you meant.
For your own sanity, and others reading...there are like 4 or 5 different threads here I am referencing for my custom installation. My Generator installation utilizes temperature switches for safety. The system will turn on an extra fan extra air movement if the engine temp. rises higher than I prefer. I also have a switch to kill the ignition of the generator should it get too warm.
-As a warning system, I have two bright flashing lights, 1 inside and 1 outside the MH along with a alarm siren I can turn off/mute for the over heat scenario.
**I am very thankful for Professor and others helping me out with understanding things and creating larger questions in my mind....forcing me to research and learn from what many others have tried and reported on in the past. It all has been very,very helpful.
This website has a wealth of knowledge with feedback and pictorials.....AWESOME!!!!
Dan:B

I wonder if the entire thread could be downloaded and saved to a file for reference!

[Dan86300zxt]

professor95 wrote:

ol Bombero-JC wrote:

professor95 wrote:


Please be advised that not everyone agrees with my advice for not bonding a generator and/or inverter when used inside a RV.

Prof: Yep - just can't agree with using a gen "inside a RV" - bonded or not.


:B

Yep, that could be noisy, smelly and dangerous to boot.

Use the generator outside. But, you may use the inverter inside provided vented lead acid batteries are not in your living space.

I need to hire you as my proofreader. Too many instances of ready, shoot, aim on my part. But now that I am "over the hill" folks around here don't pay too much attention to my foot-in-mouth disease - or for that matter, me.....period. :B

No worries, I knew what you meant.
For your own sanity, and others reading...there are like 4 or 5 different threads here I am referencing for my custom installation. My Generator installation utilizes temperature switches for safety. The system will turn on an extra fan extra air movement if the engine temp. rises higher than I prefer. I also have a switch to kill the ignition of the generator should it get too warm.
-As a warning system, I have two bright flashing lights, 1 inside and 1 outside the MH along with a alarm siren I can turn off/mute for the over heat scenario.
**I am very thankful for Professor and others helping me out with understanding things and creating larger questions in my mind....forcing me to research and learn from what many others have tried and reported on in the past. It all has been very,very helpful.
This website has a wealth of knowledge with feedback and pictorials.....AWESOME!!!!
Dan:B

[professor95]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:

professor95 wrote:


Please be advised that not everyone agrees with my advice for not bonding a generator and/or inverter when used inside a RV.

Prof: Yep - just can't agree with using a gen "inside a RV" - bonded or not.


:B

Yep, that could be noisy, smelly and dangerous to boot.

Use the generator outside. But, you may use the inverter inside provided vented lead acid batteries are not in your living space.

I need to hire you as my proofreader. Too many instances of ready, shoot, aim on my part. But now that I am "over the hill" folks around here don't pay too much attention to my foot-in-mouth disease - or for that matter, me.....period. :B

[Old___Slow]

JC,

Glad to see you eyes are not failing. Mine were dim on that one. But, about 'how many Fieros' ask the shadow, he always knows. My take, prob' one less to buy all those gens.:W

[ol_Bombero-JC]

professor95 wrote:


Please be advised that not everyone agrees with my advice for not bonding a generator and/or inverter when used inside a RV.

Prof: Yep - just can't agree with using a gen "inside a RV" - bonded or not.

And then there *were* the famous/infamous Bonding threads, LOL!

Disclaimer:
Belated happy anniversary!

~

~

~

BTW - before the keyboards start smokin' like an Elim without oil . . . . .
and
Oscar gets that mealtime look in his eyes - -

the above is just another . . how many Fieros? joke.

:B

[Dan86300zxt]

Prof.>>Thank You very much for the clarification and solid explanations.

I am using a low durometer urethane for all my mounts and hardware washers to combat vibration. This was a smart move on my part based on your advice, but I will make sure to follow the Isolation advice on the components to make sure they do not have a means of conducting a ground path to the Motorhome.
Thanx,
Dan

[Beach-Rat]

For all of the collectors out there.. Aldi will be selling KingCraft 6,000-Watt
Electric Generator
$ 349. 99 each starting 3-16-10..

I'd call first to be sure they have one in stock Aldi Homepage

[professor95]

Dan,

You have the expected 30 amp service for a motor home. You threw me when you said your outlets were only 2-wire. While the box may say 50 amps, it is only in reference to the total rating. The 50 amp service typical on larger RV's is actually TWO 120 volt 50 amp feeds. Thus, it is capable of providing 100 amps at 120 volts.

As you noted, the neutral and grounding circuits are isolated from each other. The neutral "floats" and the grounding wire goes to the RV frame. True grounding is not achieved until the RV is plugged into shore power. When plugged in, you have bonding at the main service entrance panel for the shore power.

Much debate and differing opinions exist on generator and inverter bonding for use with an RV. I am one that advocates NOT bonding the neutral and frame (grounding point) of a generator to the RV frame. IMPO, when bonding is used without a true earth ground the risk of electrical shock increases. But when you are not bonded a fault from the hot side of the wire to ground will not trip a circuit breaker - which is why many advocate bonding of a generator and inverter. On the other hand, when you bond a generator/inverter you are connecting an ungrounded neutral that is really a hot wire to the RV frame. With this type of connection you can get a pretty good jolt by touching the RV frame and moist earth ground even with no physical connection to earth ground being part of the circuit.

Knowing that the inverter and possibly the generator are internally bonded -- if I were installing your equipment into my RV I would mount the generator and inverter so that they were not in any way attached to the RV frame. This will prohibit their internal bonding from completing the circuit from the RV frame to the neutral.

An alternative is to allow the inverter and generator frames to bond to the RV frame, thus making a physical connection, but NOT using the grounding wire as part of your power feed to the RV (0nly two wires - hot and neutral or black and white).

Please be advised that not everyone agrees with my advice for not bonding a generator and/or inverter when used inside a RV.