3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[olephart]

I would like some opinions concerning maximum continuous load based on the data presented below. It's a 3000W Champion operating on Natural Gas.



I saw the tech bulletin concerning governor adjustment. It said the normal RPM range was 3600 to 3720. As you can see, RPM at 22.9A is below the recommended range.

I can cause the RPM to increase above 3600 at 23A by pressing on the governor arm, so the engine has not reached it's limit. I believe setting 3600 at 23A will cause the light loads to exceed 3800 RPM. My normal load is about 10A but 22A will be needed for a few hours when battery charging is added to the load.

If I leave things as they are, is it OK to run continuously at 3500 RPM with a heavy load?

[ol_Bombero-JC]

From 11-18-07 -

Lots of excellent silencing info:

"My $500. Almost Silent Generator with pic. & db readings"

41 pages - and *LOTS* of pics.

~

[MrRchitty]

Well, I just finished outside. There was no difference in the sound from the Champion generator after securing the plastic fan to the flywheel. The decibel readings were the same and the increased sound from the generator under load were still evident.

The only advantage I got out of this was changing the position of the starter cord. It feels more ergonomical to me. And while I was at it, I changed the oil.

Only other reading I took was turning the generator sideways and measured the decibels at 67.

Anyhow, have a nice weekend.

[MrRchitty]

Tomorrow, I will start it after the Goop has dried and measure the difference if there is any in the decibel reading.

Randall

[MrRchitty]

While taking the time to go page by page of this thread for ideas I may have missed or to refresh myself with some information, I ran by a poster's suggestion to silicone the plastic cooling fan of the 3500 Watt Champion Genny. They reported hearing some extra noise in the front of the motor. There was some extra noise in the front of my 196cc motor and was more dominant under a load. I tried to get some pictures of the sound from the generator with no load and then with load. The load was the 13,500 btu ac and the water heater element. The decibel reading with no load was 70db and increased to 74db. I removed the black cover (note the position of the pull cord both before and after repair) and put my fingers on the white plastic fan. (please note: for first timers, motor was not running) I was able to shimmy the plastic fan easily. The pictures are large for detail purposes only.

Edit: found the original poster for the repair

StaJs (entered 06/02/2006) wrote:
Your right!

My Champion C46540 is now quiet! This is what I found. The cooling fan on these engines are not cast with the flywheel as found on older engines but is a separate piece of plastic held only by the flywheel/starter cup nut. This apparently causes some vibration/oscillation with the fan while running. Some may be worse than others as mine was very loud.

The cure?
I removed the start recoil (10mm x 3)
than the housing (10mm x 4). Next the flywheel nut (19mm x 1).
The plastic flywheel will fall off, I cleaned the flywheel surface and backside of the fan to remove any grease or oil than ran a bead of silicone around the center hole and around the outside of the flywheel leaving a gap for the ignition magnet. Put the whole thing back together and let it set for 24 hours. (well, 19 hours - I couldn't wait to hear the results!).

QUIET! Not that much louder than my Honda 1000 inverter unit!
And to think I almost sold it at work last night!

Now for the test. Will it hold together? I think so. Did I void the warranty? At this point I don't care. I'm just so happy it is as quiet as everyone elses!

Happy boondocking!

Above shows the 23 feet measured, decibel reading may or may not be clear.



Above shows the no load decibel reading, gennie running.



Above shows with load. (AC unit and water heater element)



Above shows unit assembled, pre-repair, note position of pull cord.



Above shows the black cover removed, 3 screws and I used a 10mm socket.



Above: pointing out the fins of the fan. It is held in place by the center nut. I used a 19mm socket. I used a flat head screw driver and placed it in one of the two indentations of the flywheel and rested against the block or head assembly of the motor. The indentation used was the one without the magnet for the coil to avoid the risk of damage. This nut was removed after removing the yellow cover, see below.



Above, yellow cover removed, giving more access to the fan and the flywheel.



Above shows the fan removed. Note the partial holes in the flywheel and the holes in the pull cord assembly cup, they are intended to hold the fan in place. However, due to the size difference, the fan is allowed to move in place. The motor creates power only on the power stroke once every two turns. All the while, a heavy load on the generator head is slowing the motor down. So this rapid speed up, slow down of the motor causes the fan to move in its position. Thus creating some extra sound.



Above shows the knubs in the fans surface where they ride into the flywheel.



Above shows the application of Goop, Marine glue. This is my personal preference. I have used Goop RV and Marine and it applies like silicone and has that underlying flexibility to it but adheres like nothing I've seen. It is merely my opinion on the product.



Above, finally: all assembled. While reassembling, I discovered that the cover will fit in one of two positions. I always wondered why the cord was where it was. In the new position, I feel that it is easier to grab and pull in the upward direction which is where I am standing. Now, when I stand in front of the generator, being right handed, all of the controls are to my right with the generator to my left. This allows me to place my left hand on the generator for stability.

[Spectre21]

MrRchitty wrote:
I don't have one, but isn't there supposed to be a couple of inches at the bottom and the back supposed to be open?

And second, I don't like the fact the heat off of the motor exits the back of the motor and together with muffler heat pass under the gas tank and exits right over the air intake for the generator head. Extended runs have made those fins pretty warm. The Hondas force all the heat produced by the motor out the side away from the generator head. If these are gx200 knock offs and parts can be gotten any where, perhaps replacing the heat shield from a Honda.

There is several inches around the bottom and one end opens to vent the exhaust. Temperature was low 90's in Northeast Oklahoma when I fried mine.

I was impressed with Champion tech support. They talked me through troubleshooting and sent me the parts I needed.

[MrRchitty]

Spectre21 wrote:

OhhWell wrote:
How do those Gen tents go about creating enough air flow while still quieting them down?

They don't!
As a Rookie I fried my AVR. Setup will now include a fan!

I don't have one, but isn't there supposed to be a couple of inches at the bottom and the back supposed to be open?

And second, I don't like the fact the heat off of the motor exits the back of the motor and together with muffler heat pass under the gas tank and exits right over the air intake for the generator head. Extended runs have made those fins pretty warm. The Hondas force all the heat produced by the motor out the side away from the generator head. If these are gx200 knock offs and parts can be gotten any where, perhaps replacing the heat shield from a Honda.

Just saying.

[Spectre21]

OhhWell wrote:
How do those Gen tents go about creating enough air flow while still quieting them down?

They don't!

As a Rookie I fried my AVR. Setup will now include a fan!

[OhhWell]

Professor,

Thanks, I didn't think about the exhaust heat coming from the muffler. Definitely will have to adjust to make sure that doesn't melt the foam/rubber. The back side of the unit sticks out about an inch or two from the enclosure (really more like just a baffle than an enclosure) so the vent for the generator head is in open air.

How do those Gen tents go about creating enough air flow while still quieting them down? From the pictures on the web site, they look like a mostly enclosed shelter of canvas.

Heading down to Sanibel for the week of the 4th on Friday and will have plenty of shore power so no time or need to play with it for a while.

Edit: spelling

[professor95]

OhhWell wrote:


I found that the interlocking edges work just as well for creating a 3d cube as they do for a 2d mat. I made 3 walls and a roof. I put it over the genset with the open end being the exhaust end (of course). Holy cow that was a huge difference!

Yes, many of us that have an open frame synchronous Chinese genset have fount this to be true. One company, SuperGenProducts offers a GenTent that is ready made to provide the same noise reduction. I have even used an old cardboard box and 1/4" foam panels as used behind vinyl siding with great success. There are videos with dBa test somewhere on this thread.

One BIG caution and rule to follow - A fan should only direct air into the recoil starter opening. Placement anywhere else will disrupt design air flow and actually make the generator run hotter.

You must maintain a few inches of opening all around the bottom of the generator for cold air to flow into the enclosure.

The point of the highest forced heat exhausting from the generator (other than the muffler), or where both engine and alternator heat combine, is underneath the generator where the engine and alternator connect. You will note an opening here where the forward cooling fan for the alternator resides. Make sure this point is not obstructed.

An opening over the fuel tank filler is a must for both fumes and heat venting. I like to use one at least 4" round or square. You can make the opening into a smoke stack of sorts to help reduce noise from that port - but this is seldom necessary.

The end of the alternator - you know, the round finned thing, MUST have a cool air supply. If you obstruct this end you will soon lose your AVR due to high heat - not a good thing to do. Make sure you have an unobstructed opening for the end of the alternator that is not subjected to recirculating hot air.

Lastly - the heat from the muffler will melt plastic, rubber or similar materials placed in close proximity. Be sure your rubber mats are not subjected to this heat. Maintain at least 8" or more of air space from the muffler shield.

Happy Camping!

[OhhWell]

Well, I would like to show my appreciation for the number of people that have posted very usefull information and research on this thread. We were mulling over getting one of the Champion 2000w inverter models but even at $500 at Sams club, that was stretching our meager budget (or I should say the meager budget that the wife could stomach for a generator). Even then, I wasn't sure it could or should run our 13.5 A/C unit.

Thanks to this discussion, we picked up one of the 3500w champions from Camping world recently when they had the $9 shipping deal. Arrived well packed with Styrofoam keeping the engine and gen head secured on the frame and not resting on the motor mounts.

Anyway, after I fired it up (First pull), it wasn't as quiet as I had hoped but much quieter than I had feared. It had no trouble firing up the A/C and it was about 95f out. That was with the electric fridge and converter running.

I did a quick test for sound abatement and think I have found a very cheap and simple method. A while back we bought some of those modular rubber exercise mats at sams club. The closest thing I can find to illustrate would be these...

http://www.ediscountbike.com/Kinetic-Modular-Trainer/-p7705947.html

I seem to remember the ones we bought from Sams club were a lot cheaper.

I found that the interlocking edges work just as well for creating a 3d cube as they do for a 2d mat. I made 3 walls and a roof. I put it over the genset with the open end being the exhaust end (of course). Holy cow that was a huge difference!

This was just a test to see what it would do. I will cut out a hole and put a 12v fan on one panel that will blow into the front of the engine. Hopefully that will provide enough air flow. I can cut up one of the sections of mat and create a permanent baffle for the fan inlet.

Where we usually dry camp, there is only forest to the rear of the camp site. We can aim the exhaust end that way and have no one but the wildlife complaining to the camp host.

Edit: After looking at that link I used as an example, the ones from Sams were alot bigger too, more like 2' x 2' or more. They left a decent amount of space around the frame.

[jasult]

Brings back memory last year when I boondocked at Hershey PA RV Show and every one had their gennys running. I too had my yellow Champ running at times. At quiet time all gennys were to be off. Well all night someone had something running straight through night and I got up and walked through parking area only to find a monster diesel genny set up by security to run security lights on entire area :h

[waybo418]

Funny.....I don't feel like a yuppie. More like a poddie (Poor Old Downwardly mobile devil)

[ol_Bombero-JC]

Bet you didn't know you are . . . "Yuppies" -

Champion Rant w/ pics

BTW - wonder if *this* thread was started by a Yuppie Professor, or is that a Professor of Yuppies, LOL!:B:B

~

[Dan86300zxt]

"How is the Kill_A_Watt doing with AC unit running through it without a fuse?"

*Inside of mine, there is a very small ceramic fuse with a very low rating.(That fuse was fine)
**The fuse that blew from pulling more than 15 amps through the meter was the soldered thermal fuse for 15 amps at 99C.
-for a quick temporary fix, I snipped the fuse out and twisted the soldered leads together, I plan to head to radio shack and pick up a replacement fuse that I can solder in to replace the one that blew.

***The Kill-A-Watt works just fine with the ac pulling power through it with and with-out a fuse.
It will beep the warning tone of over load for 1/2 a second when the ac is first turned on, but that about it.
I blew the thermal fuse in the meter running a 1500 watt water heater element and the ac at the same time. The fuse lasted for a minute or so, then popped.