3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[BobandPatB]

Home Depot is what I meant, not Sears. When you get old your mind does strange things. I had Sears on my mind for something else.

[SonicLogic]

BobandPatB wrote:
Sears has a CHAMPION 3500 WATT model #46511 on their internet site with free shipping for $299, but I don't recognise this model number. The picture isn't clear enough to determine if it has an RV outlet.
Is anyone familiar with this unit?

Home Depot is running the same deal. These are new, old stock Champion generators.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100663865&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=100663865&cm_mmc=shopping-_-google-_-D25X-_-100663865

[BobandPatB]

Sears has a CHAMPION 3500 WATT model #46511 on their internet site with free shipping for $299, but I don't recognise this model number. The picture isn't clear enough to determine if it has an RV outlet.
Is anyone familiar with this unit?

[chrisser]

Great info Mike. Thanks for posting it.

[LooseNut]

LooseNut wrote:

chrisser wrote:


. . .

One thing I noticed is that, above the engine, there's a loose wire tied up. There's no schematic in the manual.

I'm sorta curious what the wire is for, but I haven't had the time to trace it.

I also noticed the loose wire (blk/wh). I looked at it briefly. My only slightly educated guess at this point is that it will stop the engine if grounded. I did call the number on the front of the owners manual and they were able to send me a wiring diagram by email. Ask for the wiring diagram for the APG3012 if you call. The diagram is a poor jpg copy of a poor pdf file. The schematic drawing is ok, but the writing is not easily decipherable. (I can send it to you if you want.) Also, the schematic does not exactly depict the genset wiring, but it's close (e.g., the loose wire is not shown on the schematic, the schematic shows only one main winding but the alternator appears to have two, and the little module that the oil level switch connects to is shown to have three wires on the schematic but actually has a four wire connection, some day I'm going to figure out what exactly is inside that module). The genset is really pretty generic.

The alternator appears to have two main windings that are paralleled inside the alternator on the terminal block. Therefore, it appears that this unit could be rewired for 240 volt operation.

Mike

Here's some more information on the KingCraft (All Power America) generator:

voltage regulation 120 volts at no load, 121 volts at 2,200 watts
frequency regulation 62 Hz at no load, 59 Hz at 2,200 watts

Here are some pictures of the AC waveform, not great but not too bad, (the only camera I have that can take digital pictures is a Kenwood VC-H1 which takes poor quality pictures), and the schematic such as it is. The generator ran a cheap digital clock just fine, so microwave oven timers should not run fast.

0 Watts


500 Watts


1600 Watts


2200 Watts


APG3012 Schematic


At light loads there is a slight ripple on the waveform which diminishes at higher loads. The waveform departs from a sine wave at heavier loads but should be fine for just about any device. The DC output was really ugly, but that's to be expected.

Mike

[Old___Slow]

Looks like DuroPower has hit the road running with their (new) DP3500ES Electric Start @ $349 w/free shipping ~ Plus it comes with wheels and some other stuff . Same model I owned before but now has side panels and is listed @ 63 dbA ~ A great upgrade and at a very low price.

[Cox89XJ]

professor95 wrote:
Bruce,

What is concerning me about rewiring your generator to parallel windings is the junction the schematic shows between the windings. If this is an "internal" connection then it is really more of a project than anyone but a motor/generator repair shop should accomplish.

Professor
As the old saying goes, “they made a mistake and wired it just like the print” which they did. The windings are connected internally. I removed the generator cover where it exposed the terminal block. Then disconnected the wires and check for continuity. Tracing the wires further they go into the winding. It would have been so easy if they had made the connection on the terminal block. Like I said in an earlier post. I made up a 10-4 cord and have the 220 volt plug wired to a 50 amp receptacle that I can plug the fifth wheel into. The generator came with 12 amp breakers and when the A/C would kick on it would trip that circuit. I replaced the two 12 amps with 15 amp Square D breakers and now the 13,500 btu A/C will run and not trip the breakers. The breaker that feeds the A/C also feeds the microwave. I know I won’t be able to run the micro while the A/C is on. The other side of the circuit feeds the rest of the RV. I just hope the windings on the A/C side of the generator hold up. Once the A/C starts and is running it should be below even 12 amp. I would check it with my amp meter, but the batteries for it are dead. I would like to thank you for your response and your contribution to this thread.
Thank you.
Bruce

[professor95]

Bruce,

What is concerning me about rewiring your generator to parallel windings is the junction the schematic shows between the windings. If this is an "internal" connection then it is really more of a project than anyone but a motor/generator repair shop should accomplish.

[blkfe]

vmckague wrote:
Thanks Prof on the tip about the stove rope, so it's off to Lowes for me and my wife. She just loves Lowes---NOT! Maybe I'll drop her off at WalMart so I can have more time just looking around. Might even find some tools I need and didn't know it.
Mr Wizard, where can I find this IIRC heat wrap? Thank you guys for taking the time to answer my questions.
Vernon

Try www.jegs.com
or...your local pep boys....

Brad

[Cox89XJ]

Schematic here

I would have bought the Champion, but a long story short. DD boy friend found this new Kenowa Gen. So my DW said I should buy it. Sooooo! I bought the Kenowa 4500E and it's 220 volt. It had two
12 amp breakers and would not run the A/C. I removed them and install two 15 amps. and it will run the A/C fine, but the A/C is on one winding and I'm thinking I need to rewire the gen for 120 volt only.
In order to disconnect the 220 volt plug and install a 30 RV plug and tie the winding together for a stronger 120 volt circuit. I think I will have to disconnect the two windings where they are tied together hopefully outside of the generator housing. I know it's hard to explain, but my question is. How do you know which side of the winding is the hot and which is the neutral? I hope this link shows.
Edit: I made a 10-4 cable and hooked to the 20amp 220 volt plug on the gen and have it wired to a 50 amp recepticle for the RV. The A/C feeds off one side of the circuit and the rest of the stuff on the other side of the circuit.

[waybo418]

Hey y'all. Just back from the race in Charlotte. The Champion did great! Started on the first or second pull everytime and only used about 8 gallons of fuel for approximately 32 hours run time. It wasn't the quietest one there, but it certianly wasn't the loudest either. I noticed several other Champions in the campground as well.

In fact, I wish the furnace did half as well as the Champ. Propane issues last night and the it was about 40 degrees in the camper when we woke up this morning. Needless to say, DW and daughter were not happy.

The DW already has asked if there was a way to put the Champ on a rack on the rear of the FW. I told her that the one that the Prof had on his TT might suit the bill. So it looks like there is some fabrication in my future. Thanks again for all the info on this thread!

[professor95]

vmckague wrote:
Thanks Prof on the tip about the stove rope, so it's off to Lowes for me and my wife. She just loves Lowes---NOT!

Oh, come on..... Nancy and I just left Lowe's. She got caught up with all of the different Halloween and Christmas blow up stuff and I just about never got her out of the carpet section so I could get my stuff.

I honestly thought we were going to leave with a $129.00 blow-up laughing Santa!!! (thank goodness we did not!)

You had better watch you wife closely as she might do the same.

You do not need both the "IIRC" heat wrap and the stove rope. One or the other will work fine alone.

BTW - the Champion 40026 with the RV outlet and the digital meter is marked at $329.00, down from $369.00 at the Lowe's store we visited. A really nice machine complete with wheel kit and the RV outlet for an exceptionally fair price.

[professor95]

MrWizard wrote:


IIRC ( If I Recall Correctly )

🙂 You got me on that one too! I thought it was a particular brand (IIRC). :S

[MrWizard]

its Header Heat wrap for Hi-Po engines

IIRC ( If I Recall Correctly )

[vmckague]

Thanks Prof on the tip about the stove rope, so it's off to Lowes for me and my wife. She just loves Lowes---NOT! Maybe I'll drop her off at WalMart so I can have more time just looking around. Might even find some tools I need and didn't know it.
Mr Wizard, where can I find this IIRC heat wrap? Thank you guys for taking the time to answer my questions.
Vernon