3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[gnolivos]

Hello gentlemen. I am looking for the rewire info for the Champion 3500/4000W model, to obtain full power from the 120V outlet.

The forum has no thread-specific search, so the task is near impossible. Can someone please communicate the post number (or page number?) where the info is located? This may be a good thing to capture in the first post as well.

Apologies for what some may consider a spoon-feeding!

[AZJIM1]

MrWizard wrote:
another friend has been using one for more than (2) years and had it stolen last night, from the trunk of the car where he had put it for safe keeping.

I HATE Thieves . . .

[MrWizard]

AZJIM1 wrote:

professor95 wrote:
One other comment......

If you are NOT trying to run an air conditioner, don't over look the 1500/1200 watt little guys CPE has. I don't own one, but I recently got the chance to examine and test run one. They are really sweet.

Come play in the golf tournament my Church Men's group is sponsoring October 15th and you just might win a new 1200 watt CPE genny and cover.

http://www.cpeauto.com/40005.php

Even though I already have the 3500/4000 watt RV Ready Champion I have considered buying the smaller Champion. I have only used the A/C once or twice while camping (Electric sites) and bring the generator along on long trips to recharge the battery. It is smaller and lighter and would fit my needs for everything except the A/C nicely. I thought I would run across a 1000w Honda or Yamaha cheap but they don't ever seem to go cheap. I could buy the little Champion and still only have $500 in BOTH of them. They of course would both be louder than a little Honda but for recharging once every couple of days I could deal with that.

my first champion was the early model 1200,(3)yrs ago, i use that for a year, charging batteries, watching TV, even running a small MW , then bought the RV ready and gave the little one to a good 'deserving' friend, it sat in his garage for almost a year, then started on the 3rd pull, when they lost power due to a wildfire on the ridge above his house.

another friend has been using one for more than (2) years and had it stolen last night, from the trunk of the car where he had put it for safe keeping.

[professor95]

Ahhh.... I see they increased to $349...

I warned the Chinese generator purchasing community back in early July……. For those who missed it, it appears below again. The situation is only going to get worse and prices increase as margins decline.

Professor 95 wrote:


Here is something to ponder if you are looking to buy a generator any time soon. I don't have a crystal ball, but the outlook is for higher prices and lower inventories.

--------------------------

Thinking about buying a Chinese or Japanese generator but haven’t taken the plunge?

Are you still hoping that rebates or lower prices will be just around the corner?

My advice is not to wait any longer. Economic indicators point to higher prices for Chinese generators and even Japanese generators since many components on the later are made in China.

The US dollar is continuing to fall in relation to the Chinese Yuan.

The Chinese government is shutting down non-essential industries in hopes of getting the air cleaner for the Olympics. The shutdown could easily last 2 months. Foundries and generator building companies will be affected.

China is finding it difficult to continue current subsidies on the cost of gas, diesel and other oil based energy sources. The price of fuel was increased 18% two weeks ago. Many believe that even higher prices for fuel in China will prevail after the Olympics.

The cost of shipping cargo containers from China to US ports is soaring due to rising oil prices. The ships that move these cargo containers are not sail boats!

Overland freight costs are also on the increase. Again the culprit is rising oil prices.

Major suppliers of electricity are increasing their rates. The increased cost of heating, cooling and lighting US based warehouses, stores and offices will be passed on to consumers.

If a major hurricane hits the US this summer, current supplies of generators will evaporate quickly. As the supply declines, costs will rise. (9-15-08 addition. Gustov and Ike wiped out current inventories - the warehouse shelves are bare!)

Existing inventories of generators built by the now defunct Coleman-Powermate factory are declining rapidly. Big box stores like Home Depot and Lowe’s are turning to the Chinese generator market to fill the supply gap. But, supplies are falling and thus prices will rise.
(9-15-08 addition. Lowe's has added CPE to their generator line as has NAPA, more HD stores picked up CPE and Costco added the larger units only - Coleman was bought by another company and has restarted production)

If you want a small generator for RV or home backup use, better get one while you can at today’s bargain prices.

[toprudder]

pritch272 wrote:
Ahhh.... I see they increased to $349...

Yes, everything from China will increase soon if they have not already.

[AZJIM1]

professor95 wrote:
One other comment......

If you are NOT trying to run an air conditioner, don't over look the 1500/1200 watt little guys CPE has. I don't own one, but I recently got the chance to examine and test run one. They are really sweet.

Come play in the golf tournament my Church Men's group is sponsoring October 15th and you just might win a new 1200 watt CPE genny and cover.

http://www.cpeauto.com/40005.php

Even though I already have the 3500/4000 watt RV Ready Champion I have considered buying the smaller Champion. I have only used the A/C once or twice while camping (Electric sites) and bring the generator along on long trips to recharge the battery. It is smaller and lighter and would fit my needs for everything except the A/C nicely. I thought I would run across a 1000w Honda or Yamaha cheap but they don't ever seem to go cheap. I could buy the little Champion and still only have $500 in BOTH of them. They of course would both be louder than a little Honda but for recharging once every couple of days I could deal with that.

[_nawlins]

Dixie Flyer wrote:
I have a Champion generator, is there any way to add and extra gas tank, to get a couple more hours of runtime?

Sure, boat tank, brass marine fill adapter/QD (male and female), priming bulb, fuel strainer from Walmart or other.

I sized all my fittings close to 1/4" when I bought 6’ of ¼” fuel hose from Pep Boys. Remove old tank line, I removed the old tank, optional, then clamp new fill line to carburetor and triple check for leaks and check hose routing.

I don't have the Champion but GX200 Pramac 3600W. Works great but tank must be gravity feed so you have to set external tank anywhere above the carburetor. I just used the the above parts to modify a cap for switching among three of my 5 gallon Blitz tanks.

I have yet to do a timed run but gestimate more than 20 hours for 5 gallons at ¾ load.

[tvman44]

I would imagine the same thing I saw posted by firedude would work on the champ as well.

[Dixie_Flyer]

I have a Champion generator, is there any way to add and extra gas tank, to get a couple more hours of runtime?

[pritch272]

bmet2000 wrote:
Pritch272 wrote: I gave up trying to save a few dollars, just went and bought from TSC for $299 and $49 for the 4 year extended.

I don't see any generators listed on Tractor Supply. Maybe it was a one time deal? Cabellas price is $399.

Ahhh.... I see they increased to $349...

Click here.

[professor95]

One other comment......

If you are NOT trying to run an air conditioner, don't over look the 1500/1200 watt little guys CPE has. I don't own one, but I recently got the chance to examine and test run one. They are really sweet.

Come play in the golf tournament my Church Men's group is sponsoring October 15th and you just might win a new 1200 watt CPE genny and cover.

http://www.cpeauto.com/40005.php

[professor95]

bmet2000 wrote:
Pritch272 wrote: I gave up trying to save a few dollars, just went and bought from TSC for $299 and $49 for the 4 year extended.

I don't see any generators listed on Tractor Supply. Maybe it was a one time deal? Cabellas price is $399.

Cabellas price is pretty high. So is Ultra-Fab. Brick and Mortar TSC stores carry the full CPE line - pumps, winches, generators, replacement engines, etc. Our store in Mechanicsville did not have any generators last month, then 5 appeared a few days later. Now, they are all gone again. Demand is exceptionally high right now.

A lot depends on the manager of the individual store and what they want to stock. Any TSC store will "order-in" a generator for you. They are stocked in the TSC warehouse - unless they are sold out due to these nasty storms we have been seening.

The real deal at TSC is the $49 extended warranty. Only thing to keep in mind is this warranty is not a CPE warranty. If you have the extended warranty TSC may have you take the generator to a local small engine repair shop contracted by TSC to do repairs. In our area this is Bottoms Bridge Tire and Auto, some 20 miles away from the TSC store. The speed of repair can vary considerably as can the quality of the repair.

Your best bet might be to contact a store and have one ordered in for pick-up.

Also check Lowe's, Home Depot and NAPA as "some" stores are reportedly now receiving CPE generators. As time progresses, more of these stores will have them in stock. Don't forget the Parts America group (CSK, O'Rilly and Advance Auto in some areas). They are still a good source and prices are comparable.

According to some information I ran across, CPE shipped out over 17,000 generators to their retail outlets along the Florida and Gulf coast when Gustav came to town. Ike isn't going to help increase inventory in unaffected areas either.

[bmet2000]

Pritch272 wrote: I gave up trying to save a few dollars, just went and bought from TSC for $299 and $49 for the 4 year extended.

I don't see any generators listed on Tractor Supply. Maybe it was a one time deal? Cabellas price is $399.

[professor95]

toprudder wrote:
Professor,

I hope you (and everyone else) know that I was just injecting some humor. Notice the smiley face I included.

Yep, I know. Everything is cool. Did you see my comment about your interjections few postings back?

Incidentally, I consider Toprudder a good forum friend and respect his knowledge and expertise. He is, in effect, my unofficial proof-reader. I know he will critique anything I post - and I expect him to! I enjoy the feedback. He keeps me on my toes Additionally, if I get stumped on something, he is one of the first I send an e-mail to for help. We are fortunate to have him among our regular readers/contributors.

[toprudder]

professor95 wrote:

(Oh, for those who want to see zero degrees start at a zero crossing point - I moved it up to coinside with the drawing. It is still 360 degrees no matter where we start as long as we have a full cycle or period.)

It was the best drawing I had available at the time. Maybe posting that drawing as an example was a mistake?

Professor,

I hope you (and everyone else) know that I was just injecting some humor. Notice the smiley face I included.

FWIW, for some of the testing that I perform in my day job, we always refer to the positive going zero crossing as zero degrees. We have to apply surge currents at a zero crossing (usually zero degrees) and both 90 and 270 degrees.