3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[blpeck]

Take it to a oil lube place and they can dump it in there used oil drum.

[TxFire]

I have had my Champion RV ready generator for almost a year with very little use. It has though now been running for 13 1/2 hrs today as back up power for my home. We lost power at around 03:00 last night and the restoration of power is uncertain at this time. So I LOVE my Champion now!! Much quieter than the 8hp gen my neighbor is running. 🙂

[boucher1]

Professor95

I’ve been away from this site for about 2 years. During that time I’ve purchased a Chinese Genset, put 200hrs of usage and had no problems.

The other day a seller of Japanese Genset told a friend that his units were superior to other similar manufacturers of Japanese Genset. He used the following argument: that his units had a higher Max Peak Wattage versus Rated Wattage.

He said that his units were better suited for RV AC units and other motors that have a high initial wattage demand on start-up.
I have to admit that I did not expect this approach. He also mentioned that they had back up data on these facts which of course he could not produce.

My questions are:
Does the his comments make any sense? Why or why not?
In other words, could there be such differences between Max versus Rated? If so, how and if not, why?
Any clarification would be appreciated.

Thanks

Roger:)

[Oswald38]

scottz wrote:

blpeck wrote:
Just drain tank and carb when not in use. than no gunk to build up.

What does everyone do with the gas they drain? I suppose if its still good you can easily reuse it.

How do you get rid of gas that is no longer any good?

A small carb bowl full? Hmmm...

[scottz]

blpeck wrote:
Just drain tank and carb when not in use. than no gunk to build up.

What does everyone do with the gas they drain? I suppose if its still good you can easily reuse it.

How do you get rid of gas that is no longer any good?

[blpeck]

Just drain tank and carb when not in use. than no gunk to build up.

[Old___Slow]

Prof95:

Old & slow needs help yet again. You say "Wait, it gets even worse" Please, what is the best of all possible worlds for this old guy. Got two genny and don't want them all gunked with bad fuel. I use common fuel from the supply here in Texas.

Floyd

[scottz]

In this case I am happy I went against the user manual on the Champion and used premium non-oxygenated gasoline. I avoid using ethanol in any of my small engines, and from the Profesor's comments feel justified in doing so.

[professor95]

HedoTravelers wrote:
Dry gas, aka gas line antifreeze.
I buy the isopropyl, not the methanol type.

Yes, Methanol is NOT advised for 2 stroke engines. Isopropyl is supposedly OK. Iso-Heat is 99% isopropyl and comes in a red bottle. Regular yellow bottle Heat is Methanol. Both have an octane rating of about 103. I use a product called Sea Foam to perk up my outboard every Spring.

With 10% ethanol in our gas, additional alcohol should not be needed to "dry" the gas. Apparently the problem is the gas and ethanol separate over time and create a "gook" at the bottom of the tank. Any water makes the problem more severe. If gas like I found in my boat tank were to be in one of the Chinese generators, the gook would immediately go into the carb and prohibit starting or running until the mess was cleaned out.

This is a quote from one of the on-line sites I visited: "Wait, it gets even worse! Ethanol attracts water. Unlike cars, boat fuel tanks vent into the open air. Thus, Ethanol can literally suck moisture in from the air to collect in your fuel tank. For those of us that keep our boats in storage for 5 to 6 months (or more), the shelf life of E-10 is estimated to possibly be as short as 60 to 90 days before it starts to turn into “chewing gum”, so to speak." http://powerboat.about.com/od/maintenance/a/Engines_ethanol.htm

Same is true of our genny fuel tanks - they are vented and hopefully stored outside in a garage or shed subject to high humidity. They can sit for several months with no usage. The gook I found in my boat gas tank (red plastic) was really an eye opener.

Now, if you run your genny on LPG, as I do, ethanol isn't a problem. 🙂

[racefan1965]

blpeck wrote:
Well after reading i went and got the champion 3500-4000 watt generator.well try it out soon i hope could not see buying a high dollor generator that will sit more then used.but still have the option to have power to charge the battery when they need it

That's exactly why most of us have the champion. We use a genset while camping maybe 7 to 10 days out of the 365 available and can't justify spending $1000.00 for a genset to sit. Not when the fairly quiet champion works so well for 1/5th the price. Plus it has 220 volts and will run my well pump at home during outages. Actually I used my champion more hours for outages last year than I did camping. Personally I think I got a great deal and am ecstatic with the savings.
Even better news...the property next to me has sold...to a RV dealer who just told me he'd fix the gas side of my reefer for free. If that happens I won't need to run a genset for long hours anywhere anymore period.:)

Rick

[blpeck]

Well after reading i went and got the champion 3500-4000 watt generator.well try it out soon i hope could not see buying a high dollor generator that will sit more then used.but still have the option to have power to charge the battery when they need it

[HedoTravelers]

Dry gas, aka gas line antifreeze.
I buy the isopropyl, not the methanol type.

[tvman44]

Wgeorge11 wrote:

professor95 wrote:
A little on-line research confirmed ethanol will separate from gas during long term storage.

Thanks for the heads up Professor. I've been looking at some of that "stuff" in my tanks and wonder how it got there and how to get rid of it. It's surely an incentive to consider modifying the genny carb to burn propane which doesn't separate.
Anyone out there know if there's a way/additive to stabilize this corn fuel soup? Cost and environmental considerations preclude dumping it, and I heat with geothermal, not fire.

Years ago I remember buying an additive to add to the fuel that mixed wiht the water and allowed it to butn through without any ill effects. I had somehow gotten water in my boat tank and used this stuff and it worked. At the time I think I got it from Boat US. Just a thought in case someone has a lot of fuel like I did at the time.

[Wgeorge11]

professor95 wrote:
A little on-line research confirmed ethanol will separate from gas during long term storage.

Thanks for the heads up Professor. I've been looking at some of that "stuff" in my tanks and wonder how it got there and how to get rid of it. It's surely an incentive to consider modifying the genny carb to burn propane which doesn't separate.
Anyone out there know if there's a way/additive to stabilize this corn fuel soup? Cost and environmental considerations preclude dumping it, and I heat with geothermal, not fire.

[professor95]

I pulled my boat out of winter storage earlier in the week. I had left some fuel in one of the tanks from last fall. As I poured it into another jug for use in the mower, I noticed a cloudy mess at the bottom. Turns out the cloudy mess was a combination of ethanol and water. The ethanol had separated from the gasoline and being hydrospopic absorbed moisture. If this had been pumped into the OB motor or dumped in the tractor fuel tank "as is", I would have had a real mess. A little on-line research confirmed ethanol will separate from gas during long term storage.

I bring this up because a lot of folks may be pulling their gennys out for the first time after several months of rest. If you left fuel in the tank, even if it had stabilizer added, it would be a good idea to remove the old fuel and replace with new.

What I did with the 5 gallons from the boat was let it settle again, then syphoned the stuff that looked like good gas off the top. It runs fine in the Wheel Horse/Kohler engine, even with a 50:1 gas/oil premix.