3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[rpa91]

I have one and cpould not be happier,, its a quality product for a good price.

[professor95]

MrWizard wrote:
I would turn it off, switch, then re-start,

saves arcing and prevents pitting, on the switch contacts from the load, and it saves the generator, should PITTED contacts stick and NOT switch, when they are supposed to.

I agree with MrWizard.

I am sure you realize you cannot get 240 out of the RV outlet. You will need a separate cord pluged into the 4 prong twist lock outlet.

[MrWizard]

I would turn it off, switch, then re-start,

saves arcing and prevents pitting, on the switch contacts from the load, and it saves the generator, should PITTED contacts stick and NOT switch, when they are supposed to.

[skyzoomer]

If I'm running our Champion C46540 off the RV power plug to our home which is 120 volts only, and then need to power the 220 volt pump for our solar water heater for a while, is it OK to just flip the toggle switch on the C46540 while it is running or do I need to turn the engine off, toggle the switch, then restart the engine again?

The sequence would go like this:
1. Switch all of the toggle switches on the transfer switch "off" of the C46540.
2. Toggle the C46540 from RV mode to 220 volt mode while it is still running.
3. Plug the solar water heater pump into the C46540.

Later:
4. Unplug the solar water heater pump from the C46540.
5. Toggle the C46540 from 220 volt mode to RV mode while it is still running.
6. Toggle the switches on the transfer switch to apply generator power back to the house circuits.

[Old___Slow]

MrWizard wrote:
running the A/C at 12 amps plus the charger/converter comes out to about 1/2 max load.. no problems

we need the surge/peak just to get the compressor going NOT for continious duty

it never a good idea to run at max loaded for an extended period on anything PERIOD

race cars usually have the engines replaced or at least torn down and rebulit between races.

MrWizard:

You are always great to give good answers and comments. I will try to not abuse my little Champ.

[professor95]

CradleRobber wrote:
My local Schuck's Automotive store has the Champion C49055 on sale for $450. I am wondering if anyone is familiar with the design and quality of this model? Is the engine a honda clone?

I believe that the power output should be adquate. My biggest applications will be either a .75HP Septic Pump or the fan on my gas furnance.

Thanks,

-Chris

The C49055 is, I believe, powered by a 9HP engine with specifications basically identical to the Honda GX270 engine. Unlike some other Chinese genset builders, Champion does not state that any of the engines used on their power equipment are Honda clones.

You did not say if your transfer switch was set up to switch both power busses (240 volts) or simply one buss of 120 volts.

You also did not specify the voltage on your septic pump.

If the transfer switch is set up for 240, which is likely for 10 circuits, and your septic pump is also 240, the C49055, which has two uncombined 20 amp 120 volt circuits or a single 20 amp 240 volt circuit, should prove to be a good match.

If the septic pump is 120 volt, you will need to keep circuits for items like your furnace and refrigerators on the opposite buss bar of the transfer switch pannel.

[MrWizard]

running the A/C at 12 amps plus the charger/converter comes out to about 1/2 max load.. no problems

we need the surge/peak just to get the compressor going NOT for continious duty

it never a good idea to run at max loaded for an extended period on anything PERIOD

race cars usually have the engines replaced or at least torn down and rebulit between races.

[Britincali]

professor95 wrote:




It is, in some respects, meant to be a clone of a very fine automobile built in Italy. .

Looks more like a lotus than anything italian.

[Old___Slow]

I just received in the mail today the most festinating pieces of equipment I have ever seen. It's a 30 Amp Rocker Switch Polarity Reverse for DC Motor control. The crossover on the back is neat. Hope someway somehow I can figure a way to use it with a Door Lock Actuator for use in a Electro-choke set up. This is going to be a real challenge for someone who is not a mechanical engineer and does not possess the talent of our Professor95. The way he fashions retro fitting is amazing. Plus, he has a shop that would be a dream come true, with the stock of items saved over the years. If no success comes from the use of the door lock actuator, the switch will find a resting place somewhere on my desk.

And Professor the RED auto is a beauty, maybe I'm a little jealous and what's your age? At 73 I still like to drive the girls crazy. If only I had a car like that! Whowa

[Old___Slow]

professor95 wrote:
Please don't get caught up in a cycle of total distrust about performance and power numbers on our generators.

Let me give an example:

I have a little red sports car.





.

And I'm the little boy in the class room who raises his hand and says "professor, I have a little red DuroPower that is 6.5hp @ 3600rpm and produces, well professor, there is no definitive answer according to my dad, what the devil the numbers are. Sorry Professor I'll try to keep my mouth shut when I don't know the answer. Please don't fail me.

[CradleRobber]

Greetings!

I have been following this thread for a while.

I am planning on purchasing a generator for my home for emergency power. I have a recently purchased a 10 circuit manual transfer switch and had it professionally installed.

My local Schuck's Automotive store has the Champion C49055 on sale for $450. I am wondering if anyone is familiar with the design and quality of this model? Is the engine a honda clone?

I believe that the power output should be adquate. My biggest applications will be either a .75HP Septic Pump or the fan on my gas furnance.

Thanks,

-Chris

[professor95]

Please don't get caught up in a cycle of total distrust about performance and power numbers on our generators.

Let me give an example:

I have a little red sports car.



It is, in some respects, meant to be a clone of a very fine automobile built in Italy. Certainly not exact, but enough to cause second looks and mistaken identity.

The engine will produce in excess of 300 HP with twin turbochargers at 14 pounds of boost, rev to 7,000 RPM and attain a top speed of at least 150 mph.

Not to surprisingly, I usually just tool around town at less than 3,000 rpm, keep the waste gates open to lower turbo/air temperatures and rarely exceed 70 mph. But, I know what it is capable of doing and that is really cool for bragging rights.

One more thing though....... anyone want to make an estimate of how long the engine might stay intact at sustained full turbo boost and 7,000 rpm?

I know of very few items sold to consumers today that are designed to provide maximum power for sustained periods of time.

[Old___Slow]

byates wrote:

Old & Slow wrote:
Bob,

On a various serious note:

The gimmicks and tricks with wattage/hp used by SOME mfg is of great concern to all the folks buying these items. Very few have the knowledge to sift through all the advertisement used to trick the people like myself who are not qualified to make a purchase based on good judgment. Can't judge if the facts are just some smoke. The Professor states "buyer beware" My hope is that men like yourself will help us to understand "True Facts" Thanks for the Post.

I don't get caught up with all the advertising hype.
When comparison shopping for these type items, I tend to look at the amperage. The amperage on higher quality items will generally be higher. I have noted that on the chinese made small electric tools, the amperage is generally on the low side.

b. yates

byates:

You are a wise man, I must say. I just checked your post of 9/21/07. Your purchase of the Onan 6500 backs up what you say. 5000w continuous/13hp ....smart shopper and well informed.

[Old___Slow]

This discourse about what is possible and what are the real facts, after the mfg play with the numbers is interesting. Then there is the issue of the quality going into the product. First,I am a novice and old & slow, however, I can still smell and ask is this "a rose or a skunk" It has been suggested to visit Champion website, I just did. First thing I noticed was a Model C46535CSA listed. I said wow, there is bobandcats 2800w figure he found stamped in a genhead he opened. This is what I read C46535CSA/6.5hp (2800w running-peak 4000) Now, which is correct (and I don't need any mfg speak), the figures for the US or Canada? Now to continue on. I my made a statement that I had run (C46540)my 13,500btu A/C, 12a refer, built in conv./batt.chg and micro, all at the same time. Then I got to thinking, I only used the micro for 5 minutes. Tried this again and noticed the LCD clock went crazy. The A/C would not cycle correctly. Every thing was ok without the use of the micro. Also I remember a statement like this, a genset will over heat with a heavy load after 30 minutes. I don't want to burn the barn down just to see the fire. One thing more "I'm to old the argue"

[byates]

Old & Slow wrote:
Bob,

On a various serious note:

The gimmicks and tricks with wattage/hp used by SOME mfg is of great concern to all the folks buying these items. Very few have the knowledge to sift through all the advertisement used to trick the people like myself who are not qualified to make a purchase based on good judgment. Can't judge if the facts are just some smoke. The Professor states "buyer beware" My hope is that men like yourself will help us to understand "True Facts" Thanks for the Post.

I don't get caught up with all the advertising hype.
When comparison shopping for these type items, I tend to look at the amperage. The amperage on higher quality items will generally be higher. I have noted that on the chinese made small electric tools, the amperage is generally on the low side.

b. yates