3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

Here is some more "stuff" on sound abatement for the Chinese Generators:

I used my ELM3000 for this test because my Champion is now bolted to the back of my camper. Since the construction and sound is similar, results should also be similar.

I started with a piece of 1/4" thick foam fan fold board. I selected this only because I had a pack left over from a recent siding job on my house. Actually, it worked out pretty good being light weight, easy to cut and having good standard deminisions of 2' x 4' per panel. I cut it into three sections, leaving a lip on the two longer/outer pieces. The end section was cut separate and duct taped on.



The generator was sitting in the driveway. I started it up and made some initial benchmark sound level measurements.



The fan fold was configured to make a 4 sided enclosure with one end open. The "tabs" were weighted to keep it in position.



The generator was positioned so the engine side was facing the closed part of the enclosure. The exhaust faced the open end. It was pretty much centered to the sides but placed close to the back.



These are the results:

Sound measured 7 FEET from back without enclosure = 78 dB, with enclosure = 67 dB. Note the 11 dB drop and that this is at SEVEN FEET not meters!

Sound measured at 7 FEET off the si..., with the enclosure = 73 dB

Sound measured off the open end at 7 FEET was the same with or without the enclosure at 79 dB.

Now, read this carefully..... at 21 feet off the back the sound level was a very agreeable 57 dB with the enclosure, without the enclosure we were right on 67 dB.

The engine and generator stayed at normal operating temps.

I tried adding some additional layers of ...

[StaJs]

Tonka Truck wrote:
Good Grief, that one may have a mech. problem causing noise. My new Champion C46540 is slightly louder than my Nikota I've used for several years. Most of that comes from a rat-a-tat-tat from the pull starter area.

Your right!

My Champion C46540 is now quiet! This is what I found. The cooling fan on these engines are not cast with the flywheel as found on older engines but is a separate piece of plastic held only by the flywheel/starter cup nut. This apparently causes some vibration/oscillation with the fan while running. Some may be worse than others as mine was very loud.

The cure?
I removed the start recoil (10mm x 3)
than the housing (10mm x 4). Next the flywheel nut (19mm x 1).
The plastic flywheel will fall off, I cleaned the flywheel surface and backside of the fan to remove any grease or oil than ran a bead of silicone around the center hole and around the outside of the flywheel leaving a gap for the ignition magnet. Put the whole thing back together and let it set for 24 hours. (well, 19 hours - I couldn't wait to hear the results!).

QUIET! Not that much louder than my Honda 1000 inverter unit!
And to think I almost sold it at work last night!

Now for the test. Will it hold together? I think so. Did I void the warranty? At this point I don't care. I'm just so happy it is as quiet as everyone elses!

Happy boondocking!

[Tonka_Truck]

Hello Alltenofus, AZ_Ron is correct on the dip stick for your engine.
And it will start cutting out when the oil even thinks of being low.

Min - Bottom of oil fill hole.
Max - It runs out of fill hole.

Cross hatch dip stick - Check oil WITHOUT screwing it in.

[AZ_Ron]

Just a thought...flexible exaust tubing from an autoparts store would probably work perfectly... you would just have to figure out how to adapt size wise...

Ron

[3D]

Bobandcat
Same size tubing of any length will choke off the exhaust and engine will not run correctly and (2) copper tubing will cold harden due to movement and break.

[toprudder]

bobandcat wrote:
Do I need to be concerned that the exhaust would be hot enough to melt the solder?

I would think so. Regular solder is only good up to about 700 degrees F. You would be better off using silver solder (which is really brazing, not solder). You might need a hotter torch as well.

[bobandcat]

I have built a metal sound insulated box to house my Powerwise 3500 in my Montana 5'er. Tomorrow, I will install the generator.

I intend to use 3/4" copper pipe to route the exhaust from the engine to the remote mounted muffler because I happen to have some at home. I'm going to solder the fittings just like I would do for water piping.
Now my question:
Do I need to be concerned that the exhaust would be hot enough to melt the solder?
Thanks for your comments.

[AZ_Ron]

I MAY be mistaken, but I think in most of those engines, where the oil plug is at something around a 45 degree angle... you fill the case up to the bottom of the threads...

YMMV...

Ron

[alltenofus]

My UST TG3000 has the 200 clone engine. The oil dipstick is crosshatched from top to bottom and has no line. Nor is it clear whether to check the oil level with the plug screwed in or not. Could drain the oil out and measure the add per the book but hoped that someone could tell me where the oil line should be:? The manual says check the oil but somehow fails to mention how to check it. I filled it to midstick with the plug screwed in and it didn't cut out on the low level switch, but being a tech geek I'd like to know what is right.

The UST measured 85 dBA using a Metrosonics 307 at waist high standing by the generator, but it was between the TT and a metal garage door in the corner between the house, TT, and attached garage. Excellent environment for sound reflection, so this was not a fair test. 74dBA at about 15 feet. This unit has the large muffler and otherwise appears like all the other clones in this thread. I'll test it this weekend out in the middle of the backyard and try some shield arrangements with some 1/2 inch cardboard I found. Will report later.

[AZDesertRat]

Hmmmm. Mine isn't the RV model but it did have brackets holding it solid to the frame that I had to unbolt?

[Tonka_Truck]

Good Grief, that one may have a mech. problem causing noise. My new Champion C46540 is slightly louder than my Nikota I've used for several years. Most of that comes from a rat-a-tat-tat from the pull starter area. My Nikota would be louder from that area than the muffler area too, but not much.

We just took the C46540 out for a week in the mountains, dry camping in our 23' travel trailer. It ran everything off the RV plug. I sometimes couldn't tell if it was running or not at the distance of my Land Line from the trailer.

I'm looking for brackets next, I pulled mine out of the box and broke it in.

[FreeFlighter]

Mine didn't have any brackets, either.

Also, my unit is much quieter than my B & S Toro lawnmower (though, by no means is it quiet). Maybe you have some parts shaken loose during transport.

Rey

[StaJs]

I sure don't see any shipping brackets, in any shape or form.

[AZDesertRat]

Before you put gas and oil in it you turn it over and remove the brackets that are close to the rubber shock absorbers.

[StaJs]

Ordered a Champion C46540 yesterday,came today! After reading most of the 207 pages (189 pages when I started) on these gensets I was all fired up!
Started on the 2nd pull, but, this thing is LOUD! What a racket! The lady next door was mowing with that mower with the bad muffler and I couldn't even hear her when she went by.

BUT. . . .
Something seems to be vibrating in the area of the starter, but I may have to dismantle the thing because I can't find anything with it running (I did find out I should have ear plugs. It's that bad).

Champion's web site says something about removing shipping L brackets but I don't see any L brackets.

I also own a Powermate 3500 from around 1994 with a Briggs OHV engine that looks just like the Champion's engine but is MUCH quieter.

Where are these L brackets? Any of you removed L brackets from your new C46540? Do these newer units ship without them?