3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[STTH1]

Yes, I have one of those "junk" clones and am proud to say so. Just counting down the days to when I can use it amongst the other people who have bashed it and paid up to 6 times more for compareable power.

[professor95]

Professor,

I believe I detect a bit of sarcasm in STTH1's post. I agree with you, and I believe STTH1 does too. If I'm not mistaken, I've seen in another post where he purchased one of those clones, as did I.

STTH1,

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Oh....... OK. I guess I missed than one. Sorry!

[Simdog]

Professor,

I believe I detect a bit of sarcasm in STTH1's post. I agree with you, and I believe STTH1 does too. If I'm not mistaken, I've seen in another post where he purchased one of those clones, as did I.

STTH1,

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[professor95]

Some answers to questions about the output waveforms of these Chinese gensets were posted on one of my Comcast Web Sites many months back. (What? You have not read every post to know this!)

If you want to see them click
here

Once on the site, click on "photos"

[professor95]

You haven't been listening!! If it is louder than a Honda EU2000 it is pure junk, Just ask everyone that has one.

National Park regulations specify a maximum of 60db at 50 feet for a generator in their "quite zones". This figure translates to 67db at 7 meters (23 feet). All of the little 3500 watt or smaller Chinese clones using the "Honda" GX technology engine I have checked with a db level meter have indeed met this regulation.


Unfortunately, many generator users do not use common sense and courtesy in our campgrounds. (Wonder why we call it "common sense" when it is so rare?). Even a Honda EU2000 can be an annoyance in some campgrounds. I know, I have been anoyed by them! And yes, the louder a generator, the more annoying it can become - especially when improperly placed and used at inappropriate times.

Personally, I find the clanging and knocking of diesel truck engines being run to charge batteries, loud music, and alcohol induced hooting and hollering more offensive than generators.

While I have no personal or financial interest in any of these Chinese generators, I would much rather have one of them next to me than an Onan RV generator on a big motor home with the exhaust blowing into my space or a commercial generator with a minimally quieted Briggs and Stratton engine roaring in my ears.

There is no argument that the Honda EU2000 is quiter. It is indeed a quality unit. But to say anything that does not equal the EU2000 is junk is both absurd and speaks of a less than intelligent response.

By the way, check this out from the NPS site for Shenandoah National Park. here

If for some reason, the link does not work (I had trouble when I tested it), cut and paste this to visit the site.
http://www.nps.gov/shen/pphtml/subenvironmentalfactors26.html

[STTH1]

You haven't been listening!! If it is louder than a Honda EU2000 it is pure junk, Just ask everyone that has one.

[toprudder]

n7bsn wrote:
Let's admit you were being polite, since it's obvious from these (and other posts about generators) that there are a bunch of people that have no idea how generators work.

All the the cheap generators work in a very similar manner to the way the power company generators your home power; i.e. they are really better sine-waves then the reconstructed sine waves produced by the best inverters.

Curious, have you looked at the output of these generators with an oscilloscope?

Where I used to work (UL) we had to test many products to European standards, which meant 50 Hz 230v (three phase 385-410v). We had a motor generator to supply up to 100a current - not an inexpensive setup by any means. Even with this high-dollar generator, the output was not clean enough to run some tests, we had to use a solid state power source to supply the AC waveform.

I've been wanting to look at my generator output with an o'scope. Guess I need to get off my duff and do it. 🙂

[Mike_R_]

mrfixit454 wrote:
No these clones are not pure sine waves. I have been looking at the Kipor's too. Just trying the find out the difference between the yellow (Ti) and red (Tc) one in the 3500. Can't seem to find the 3k red one on their site now. the red one may be 120 only??

I was at a group camp out this weekend one guy had the EU3000. Talk about quiet. Makes you want to buy one but the $1800 price tag for occasional use stops me. I would love to hear a Kipor which is ~60-64db @ 7 meters. The EU I believe is 49-58 @ 7 meters.

DO NOT GET A TC, you want the Ti kipor. The last 2 3500Ti's sold on eBay for $855 and $840, I bought my 3500Ti to replace a EU2000 that could not run my AC, It's a hair louder, and has alot more power.

[mrfixit454]

Funny you should mention this Professor (The copying stuff). I just took a class here at work (annual training) and the topic was "Trade Secrets" and how much trouble you can get in here in the states for giving out Proprietary information. Depending on the crime.. 10 years in jail and/or $250k fine.

Found this link today for a place that sells yet another Clone. They are 70 miles from my home. I have an email into them as well for specifics
Ultra 3500 Gen

Please forgive me if this unit was already discussed. I read the 150 pages 2 weeks ago and it was a lot of info. Also.. on the linked site, check out the EU2000i clone. First one I have seen like that.
Fixit

[n7bsn]

professor95 wrote:
...
I am a little puzzled by the question. All of the clones we have been reviewing are gasoline engine driven and deliver sinusoidal output by magnetic-induction means. They are not inverters...

Let's admit you were being polite, since it's obvious from these (and other posts about generators) that there are a bunch of people that have no idea how generators work.

All the the cheap generators work in a very similar manner to the way the power company generators your home power; i.e. they are really better sine-waves then the reconstructed sine waves produced by the best inverters.

[professor95]

I gather these gens do not have "pure" sine waves. So I will probably get a Kipor, which I believe does

I am a little puzzled by the question. All of the clones we have been reviewing are gasoline engine driven and deliver sinusoidal output by magnetic-induction means. They are not inverters. They do not deliver the "modified sine" wave that references a stepped square wave from a switching DC source. Their output is definitely a true sine wave (it just isn't always real clean). Of course, this also means that the frequency of the sine wave they produce is dependent upon the engine's speed.

Kippor, Honda and Yamaha all have very nice generators that deliver their output from what is known as "inverter technology". Internally, these generators produce DC, or at least a high frequency AC and then electronically filter and shape the output into a 360 degree sinusoidal wave. Engine speed does not determine the output frequency. Granted, their output is "cleaner" than the Chinese clones - meaning there is little or no "noise" in the output waveform. But these Chinese generators definitely produce a 360 degree sine wave output that is pure enough and clean enough for all but the most sensitive electronic equipment.

[Navychop]

The Ti is the inverter version (pure sine wave), much better than the Tc (stepped wave). Or so I'm told.

[mrfixit454]

No these clones are not pure sine waves. I have been looking at the Kipor's too. Just trying the find out the difference between the yellow (Ti) and red (Tc) one in the 3500. Can't seem to find the 3k red one on their site now. the red one may be 120 only??

I was at a group camp out this weekend one guy had the EU3000. Talk about quiet. Makes you want to buy one but the $1800 price tag for occasional use stops me. I would love to hear a Kipor which is ~60-64db @ 7 meters. The EU I believe is 49-58 @ 7 meters.

[Navychop]

I gather these gens do not have "pure" sine waves. So I will probably get a Kipor, which I believe does.

[mrfixit454]

MrWizard,
Our Pepboys in Fountain Valley and Westminster has the UST(Ultimate Solutions Tools) UG3000 for $299 1 110v Duplex and Power Pro 2200 by Wen Power 120/220 1 1/2 duplex, 1 120/220 twist lock $219. Our Kragen has the Champion 3500 w/ 2 duplex and 1 twist lock $299 and a Powerwise 3500 1 duplex? $299.
I have looked at all but the powerwise at Kragen.