3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[bob_b1]

Kamphiker wrote:

What do you attribute the fluctuation on the PP3500 meter to?

I have to defer to the professor on this one.

I do get some fluctuation, but not much. The voltage does drop as more appliances are turned on, however it doesn't drop to damaging levels.

[professor95]

What do you attribute the fluctuation on the PP3500 meter to?

The sampling rate on your Fluke DMM is much slower than an analog meter. To get a real picture of what is going on you need to observe the output waveform on an oscilloscope.

[Kamphiker]

bob_b wrote:
Report on my re-wired PowerPro 3500:

I just back from a weekend tailgate up at Penn State. I ran the generator 6 hours on Friday, 17 hours on Saturday and 3 hours on Sunday. It used a little less than 1 gallon of gas every four hours. I didn't run the A/C but did use the Microwave and battery charger from time to time.

During the previous weekend, I ran it the same amount of hours and it didn't use that much extra gas with A/C on. I am very happy with performance so far.

Bob b;
I followed your instructions and did the mod on my PP3500. I have been testing the mod by running my 13.5K roof air on the trailer and by running the 5.0 Dometic refer.

So far very happy with the mod. One observation I have noticed is that after running a load on the 3500 for 15 minutes or more is the the voltage meter on the control panel starts to fluctuate rapidly from approx. 95 volts to 105 volts.

While the meter on the PP3500 was fluctuating, I pulled my Fluke MM out and measured the voltage on the unused 4 prong twist lock and measured 115.2 volts across the #1 and common terminals. Then went inside the trailer and measure voltage at various inside outlets and measured 113.6 Volts, BUT there was NO voltage fluctuation on my Fluke MM.

What do you attribute the fluctuation on the PP3500 meter to?

FIY; Before the mod I never saw this when the meter was indicating 220 volt output.

[Hot_Rod_Cummins]

Update on post above.
Using only one outlet of the 120V duplex recptacle I plugged in a 15amp/30amp RV type adaper with a 30' cord and then a 30amp/50amp dog bone adapter to the RVs 50amp supply cord and then turned on the 13,500 AC unit which ran fine and then I turned on microwave too and the PP3500 didnt even sound loaded but voltage measured in the trailer was cycling between 126v and 130v at about 1 second intervals.
I then turned off all that stuff and fired up the 15,000 AC unit and it worked fine also and the voltage readout was the same including cycling as with the other AC unit running.
I only ran these tests for 5 mins due to concerns of heat at outlet (none) and length of cords (too lazy to carry the gen out to the trailer). So far so good. It seems the voltage switch may indeed divert full capacity to the 120V outlet.
It is noisier than I expected but quieter then the Coleman Powermate 6250.

[bob_b1]

Report on my re-wired PowerPro 3500:

I just back from a weekend tailgate up at Penn State. I ran the generator 6 hours on Friday, 17 hours on Saturday and 3 hours on Sunday. It used a little less than 1 gallon of gas every four hours. I didn't run the A/C but did use the Microwave and battery charger from time to time.

During the previous weekend, I ran it the same amount of hours and it didn't use that much extra gas with A/C on. I am very happy with performance so far.

[kneisl1]

A question about the Cochirk circuit breakers on the powerPro generators. Has anyone found out what the numbers on them mean? I see a B13 on the one I bought for my PP 2200 which is the only thing I can find on there which might indicate amps. The 2200 came with one that says B8 which I guess means 8 amps. A google search turned up nothing.

[Barton_Family]

And look at the accessories for your cell phone...maybe even the phone itself. Buying only American made products is truly a noble endeavor, but in reality, is probably almost impossible to do. This topic should probably go to a new thread though, as not to pollute the invaluable information so many have contributed here...IMHO.

[professor95]

I don't buy anything chinese, I would rather pay more and buy American and support my country than the chinese........

A great philosophy, considering the US Trade Deficit. But I am curious, where would one find an American made television?

[Hot_Rod_Cummins]

Thank You everyone that has contributed to this great thread.
The knowledge gained here convinced my to sell my brand new Coleman 6250 genset and buy a Power Pro 3500 which I just brought home a few minutes ago. My question for those with way more knowledge than me is, with this unit having a voltage selector switch will all available amperage be sent to the duplex 120V outlet? also will 2 120 volt circuits be available at the 240V outlet if an adapter plug set is made to connect to my 5th wheels 50 amp power cord.
I have a schematic pic to post but cant figure out how as I am a newbie here, also pics of genset and it seems to be different from the other Power pro 3500 that I have seen, as it has a voltage selector switch, no volt meter and push button breakers with pilot lights. Its been fun learning from all this info.
Thank You
John

[ccrobins]

I don't buy anything chinese, I would rather pay more and buy American and support my country than the chinese........;)

[professor95]

I personally would not shop for one of these gensets by noise level, as I think that is the only thing that can be fudged in the specs

Some manufacturers are rating the sound levels only at idle, or no load. This is misleading as the sound (dB) rating will rise when the generator is placed under load.

As Kevin pointed out, unless you can actually test the unit with a sound level meter the published rating may be of little value.

Hopefully, this forum has helped to establish what is and is not considered acceptable for loudness in the RV generator market.

[catalina30]

Barton Family wrote:

catalina30 wrote:
Nikota generator name must have been picked up by someone. they have a new one out that seems to have answered a lot of the wiring problems.

Kevin, did you happen to notice the dB rating on this genset? When I saw the model Costco carried about 2 weeks ago, the rating was in the upper 70's, but I can't remember precisely. It was posted in the manual though. If that is still the case, that's loud. A good deal louder than the units most have mentioned on this list. The one you are seeing may indeed be different than the one they are offering here in north Georgia, but the description you posted sounds very close. Just curious.

I looked it over, engine is the same 6.5 I have. the thing has the same muffler as mine. the largest noise level is from the front of the engine on mine, and most everyone elses, no matter what brand label is on them.
I personally would not shop for one of these gensets by noise level, as I think that is the only thing that can be fuged in the specs. to make one much different than any other one on the market. I tried to record the noise it makes with my sound control panels, then without them, so I could post the recordings, but cheap recorders are not great with sound anyhow. but at 15 feet the noise internal to the sound card on my puter and mic feedback made more noise than the genset made.

Kevin
The Right Lane

[Barton_Family]

catalina30 wrote:
Nikota generator name must have been picked up by someone. they have a new one out that seems to have answered a lot of the wiring problems.

Kevin, did you happen to notice the dB rating on this genset? When I saw the model Costco carried about 2 weeks ago, the rating was in the upper 70's, but I can't remember precisely. It was posted in the manual though. If that is still the case, that's loud. A good deal louder than the units most have mentioned on this list. The one you are seeing may indeed be different than the one they are offering here in north Georgia, but the description you posted sounds very close. Just curious.

[lprice]

I ordered the ELM 3000L. It is on the way. This is really interesting reading. Thanks to the Professor for starting this thread and for his help.

[catalina30]

I went to Costco tonight, the Nikota generator name must have been picked up by someone. they have a new one out that seems to have answered a lot of the wiring problems. the coil wires come out to a switch centered in the end plate and they have both 110 and 220 outlets. the drawing for the curcuit is on the top of the head, and using it you can convert for the full 25 amp output by building a dogbone. I didn't dysect the drawing but should be easy to get the full load capacity. I would suggest a single braker/outlet box for 30 amps at the head of the dogbone. You would do the check by jumping the common side of the outlets together and check the voltage between the other side of the outlet. If the voltage is 220, all that has to be done to make it work at 110 is cross over one of the wires on the plug to the dogbone and you will have 110 at 25 amps. You will not have to do any mod inside the genhead, only make a dogbone.
The older Nikota gensets only had the Nikota nameplate, this genset has the engine manufacturers nameplate on the gas tank, as well as the Nikota name plate, maybe they picked up the rights to the Nikota name, who knows. all I know, is using it for a RV just got easer, as all that one needs is a dogbone.

Kevin
The Right Lane

P.S. The next time I am in Costco I will get the model number and post it with this message.