โMar-02-2005 06:20 AM
professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.
In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.
Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.
What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.
Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.
I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.
Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.
No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.
Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.
Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.
We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.
Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.
Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.
This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......
Randy
For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at โcloningโ reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a โrunningโ display model.
I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:
Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)
The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. โSupposedlyโ Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.
The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for โabove average qualityโ Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.
The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.
ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an โavailability listingโ.
The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings โ most likely universally available.
The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is โreasonablyโ quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a โlook alikeโ eng...
โSep-19-2011 04:34 PM
tvman44 wrote:
By breakout box you are referring to one of these transfer switches that connects as a sub-panel right?
โSep-19-2011 04:03 PM
โSep-19-2011 03:45 PM
mrekim wrote:
Yea that's why the 46514 is attractive. I'm sure that I can run the things I need in 220 mode, but I'm not positive that I can start them.
โSep-19-2011 06:24 AM
mrekim wrote:professor95 wrote:
But, please keep in mind that if you were to try and use the unit with a transfer switch for home back-up in 220 mode you would have only 15 amps MAX for each of two branch circuits.
Yea that's why the 46514 is attractive. I'm sure that I can run the things I need in 220 mode, but I'm not positive that I can start them. I'm going to start with properly sized extension cords for emergency use and once I know what works, I can add a transfer switch.professor95 wrote:
The 46514 is better suited for backup operation by connecting to a breakout box via the single 30 amp 120 VAC outlet or splitting the 220 volt outlet via a different style breakout box into two 15 amp circuits.
By breakout box you are referring to one of these transfer switches that connects as a sub-panel right?
I have one other question to ask. Hopefully it's relevant enough in this thread....
All the emergency items (sump, refrigerator, lights, etc.) can be powered by removing the plug from the wall and the device being powered is isolated from the house circuits. Since I'm going to hold off on the transfer switch for the time being, I needed to add a plug to my direct connected 120V heater blower motor. I added an outlet connection to enable this. On thing I noticed is that, even with the blower motor disconnected, there's still continuity on the round ground plug for the blower to the newly installed metal outlet box.
Even with a transfer switch the ground from the electrical system is still connected to everything in your house, in other words the transfer switch does not open the ground, just the hot wires
At first, this alarmed me. After thinking about it, I decided that the 220V AC unit was another source of ground for the blower unit since there's a metal connection between the two (copper coolant pipes).
This also means that when the generator is plugged in to the heater blower, its green wire ground is connected to the house wiring and therefore it's also bonded to the common wire via the main breaker panel.
Does this impact how the generator is configured when used for emergency backup and would it be different depending on whether it's connected to the blower motor?
โSep-18-2011 07:58 PM
professor95 wrote:
But, please keep in mind that if you were to try and use the unit with a transfer switch for home back-up in 220 mode you would have only 15 amps MAX for each of two branch circuits.
professor95 wrote:
The 46514 is better suited for backup operation by connecting to a breakout box via the single 30 amp 120 VAC outlet or splitting the 220 volt outlet via a different style breakout box into two 15 amp circuits.
โSep-18-2011 07:13 PM
bill h wrote:MrRchitty wrote:
This allowed enough start power from the generator to start and run the well pump.
TThis thing bogs significantly for about 1/2 a second and once the pump is up and running, it is no longer an issue.
What size is your pump and how deep is the well?
โSep-18-2011 07:00 PM
MrRchitty wrote:
This allowed enough start power from the generator to start and run the well pump.
TThis thing bogs significantly for about 1/2 a second and once the pump is up and running, it is no longer an issue.
โSep-18-2011 06:54 PM
professor95 wrote:
The advertised level is 68 dB, but the true level will range from 65 to 74 depending on load and which side you are facing.
โSep-18-2011 06:36 PM
โSep-18-2011 05:29 PM
Professor95 wrote:
During our recent power outage from Isabel, I used my inverter generator to connect to my APC 1000 UPS, which is connected to my digital home entertainment (TV) system, because the UPS would not work with the signal from the synchronous generator. The UPS interpreted the "noise" and distortion of the synchronous unit as a power interruption.
โSep-17-2011 08:04 PM
mrekim wrote:
I might be willing to give up the 240VAC if there was good gain in AC signal quality.
โSep-16-2011 08:47 PM
professor95 wrote:
CPE is giving THD numbers higher than what I have measured on my unit. Interesting - it usually works the other way.
professor95 wrote:
Why do you need 240 VAC? About the only item you can use it for in the USA is a small (1/2HP) shallow well pump. If that is your goal and the noise level is not of greater issue the new 41533 is a a 46538 on steroids. It has a 50 amp RV plug and all the safety features. It makes a great home back up unit when coupled with a transfer switch.
โSep-16-2011 04:34 PM
mrekim wrote:
Is there any way to tell which models have the load delay/shedding and/or the Volt Guard?
I'm looking for a 120/240 unit in the 3500 watt range (rated) with a 120/240 switch and haven't been able to see from the manual or parts list any reference to Volt Guard.
I also recall reading that some units have a better THD rating than others. Is there some place where I can look this up?
โSep-16-2011 08:00 AM
professor95 wrote:
Shutting down with a load of course causes a voltage drop. As voltage drops current will rise (remember watts = volts x amps) and the AVR does it's best to compensate by increasing voltage/current to the armature. This can cause heating in the P/N junction of the bi-polar transistors of the comparator circuit which "may" lead to failure.
Running generators of this type does involve risks. This is why CPE designed the newest synchronous generator with load delay/shedding circuitry which helps to keep this from happening. Also why they have added the Volt Guard to some models.
Our open frame synchronous generators have approximately 4% THD below 25% load. At 80% load, THD increases to about 11-13%.
Every Champion Power Equipment brush style generator produced after October of 2010 ships with our Voltguard technology. You can determine the manufacturing date of any Champion generator by the first digits of the serial number with correspond to year and month of manufacture.
Our 1200W generators are brushless.
Our remote start units have this feature. It is tied to the remote signal. If you start the generator from the electric start or from the recoil, this feature is NOT activated.
โSep-15-2011 08:22 AM
eljefino wrote:
So here's a question that I didn't see answered in the first 170 pages I read, what is the purported advantage of AVR? If my load suddenly lessens, the engine speeds up... if it cuts alternator load to keep from over-volting what's left, that only causes the engine to speed up even faster. Is that the point? To get the governor to correct the engine speed faster? A more precise feedback loop?