3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Old___Slow]

Professor95:

Perhaps a crazy idea. Is it possible you could/would install the last box for the Champion 40008 on the roof of your TT. Would maybe require a remote setup. Also, with your creative genius you might design a small HP A/C. These ideas could go along with a 1000/1200w genny to chg. the batts and power small stuff. The above would be a more silent solution for our needs. Others may have much better ideas.


Floyd
O&S

[JConatser]

TubaPete wrote:
...An alternative to consider:...don't connect it to your house as you say...

This is a good suggestion and something I would consider very carefully if I were pondering the situation. If power outages were fairly common where I lived, then yeah, I'd be looking at something more permanent and "professional" involving transfer switches and the like. However, if they only happen occasionally for a relative short period of time, then I'd probably do something like TubaPete suggests.

[TubaPete]

tmfu wrote:

What really is driving me nuts... It's going to cost me $200 at least to get the stuff I need to connect my $300 generator to my house... Darn... can't these Chinese include a hundred and fifty feet of 8/3 NM-B wire and a transfer switch for another $100?? 🙂

An alternative to consider:

Since you are planning on running a few things, don't connect it to your house as you say. Just unplug the things you do want to run and use extension cords. That's my plan. I had to move a few plugs and outlets to make them easy to reach (e.g. the frig cord goes through the floor and plugs in the basement.) but now I don't have to worry about transfer switches and the like.

[tmfu]

Hey all... Thanks for this thread... I'm not really into RVing.... at least not yet. I was in the market for a emergency generator for my home, I was ready to part with $600-700 to buy a 6000 watt Pro Force generator... or something like it. I shopped around all the local stores and one of the last places I went(Tractor Supply Company) had the Champion 4000 for $289. I didn't know anything about it, till I found this forum when I did a search for information about the Champion.

Anyway... I wound up purchasing the C46540 after reading of all the happy campers here who have them.

My needs are perhaps slightly different then most of yours... I don't want to be in the dark next time my local power company's supply of power fails to reach me. Aside from my furnace, fridge, a few lights and a TV, one of my needs is to power a 240 volt 1/2HP submersible pump in a 130' well. I wasn't entirely sure how well this Champion would work for this pump. However I figured worse come to worse, I could trade this Champ for my dad's 5500 Watt Coleman if I couldn't run my pump with the Champion.

What really is driving me nuts... It's going to cost me $200 at least to get the stuff I need to connect my $300 generator to my house... Darn... can't these Chinese include a hundred and fifty feet of 8/3 NM-B wire and a transfer switch for another $100?? 🙂 OK, so I'm only partly joking... but wow, copper has gotten expensive. Probably all the fault of the booming Chinese industry, needing more copper wire to build more manufacturing plants to supply us with cheap generators and other stuff...

I did a brief test tonight... and my Champion does operate my well pump, but it does cause a pretty good load on the Champ at startup... My plan is to not connect the pump when I have any other stuff running, other then maybe a light over the shower... I'm pretty happy that this little generator is capable of running this pump... also the generator doesn't seem to be much louder then my central air conditioning compressor is when it runs, and I know a 6000 watt (13HP) generator would have been... So, it looks like my dad is going to have to come and beg me if he should ever want to borrow my Champion for a RV trip...

Thanks again for those that have contributed to this very informative thread on cheap 3000 watt generators...

[Wgeorge11]

jauguston wrote:
Wgeorge,

Hate to bust your bubble but Beanie Babby collections are virtually worthless.

Jim

There you go again, spoiling my dreams of great wealth from all these dust collectors hanging in their baskets. Maybe the professor's right. Maybe I'll just use them for dog toys and then for insulation. Then again there's always someone (like me) out there who will buy the Brooklyn bridge. Anyone interested? How about a Homelite 5.5kw noise maker guaranteed to wake up your neighborhood.

[jauguston]

Wgeorge,

Hate to bust your bubble but Beanie Babby collections are virtually worthless.

Jim

[Old___Slow]

Oldfordman:

Go out 60 years, can you give us a link to the Champ C46540 (the genny not the airplane 7aC)

[Wgeorge11]

Don't stuff those Beanies, sell 'em. A good collection can pay for your new rig. Better yet, a really big generator.

[Oldfordman]

professor95 wrote:
WW2 era 2 cycle Homelite 1,800 watt kicker.

Did it look anything like this?Homelite Vintage Generator

[toprudder]

professor95 wrote:
Your furnace is not designed to operate off of a GFCI circuit, which is why your furnace is telling you there is a fault when it does not contain a GFCI (does it talk to you?). The control modlule in the furnace must be designed so that it can determine an external GFCI trip. I bet if your furnace is plugged into any GFCI protected outlet it will show the fault code.

I can't imagine how anything can be designed to determine if it is connected to a GFCI protected circuit, without actually inducing a ground fault current to see if it trips.

OTOH, the furnace may be complaining because there is too much voltage difference between ground and neutral conductors (not connected in the generator) or some sort of voltage difference between the incoming ground conductor and some part of the furnace chassis or metal enclosure. Just thinking out loud here. 🙂

[blkfe]

professor95 wrote:

ol Bombero-JC wrote:
Could han test your GFI theory by running an appropriate size extension
cord from the furnace to the nearest (house) GFI protected outlet?
JC

Yep. That should work.

Oh..... about the Beanies....... I was going to use them as sound absorbing material when I built my genset enclosure. My wife objected. So, I used foamboard instead.

Did you check them for lead paint??

[professor95]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:
Could han test your GFI theory by running an appropriate size extension
cord from the furnace to the nearest (house) GFI protected outlet?
JC

Yep. That should work.

Oh..... about the Beanies....... I was going to use them as sound absorbing material when I built my genset enclosure. My wife objected. So, I used foamboard instead.

[Old___Slow]

Wgeorge11 wrote:

toprudder wrote:


I just bought my son a really nice effects processor for his guitar. It has a tube preamp in it. Seems you can only get some of the rich harmonic sounds with a good old fashioned tube.

:B

Ah the nostalgia of the good old days! I'm reminded of the impact of something new when I first heard "HI-FI" c1958, compliments of Heathkit's labor of love. It put tears in my eyes, and muscle in my back just lifting the gear. Our wire spools now feed the MIG, tapes are Duck, and tubes generate microwaves. We can argue the merits of rich harmonics all night long with or without wow or flutter or distortion, but look to where its brought us. I for one could hardly imagine life roughing it without portable power even with the occasional inconvenience of a cooked voltage regulator. Besides, the smell of a fried circuit still grabs my memory bank, and with the help of all pros is an easy fix. All this for less than $300.

HI-FI 1958...Heathkits...GENSETS...2007 Been there done that,
for others it's BEANIE BABY collection in the Garage. I sure have come a long way in my search for something to entertain myself. All for less than $300........who said BOY TOYS cost big bucks, just forget all those boats, airplanes, and MH/s and g/f's.:W

Anyway, all night long in the rich harmonics and wow traveling down memory lane while genny is at rest. Oh, my sweet little gennys.:C

Me
Old & Slow

[ol_Bombero-JC]

~

[professor95]

sjj wrote:
Tks. Wizzard.

Brings up an interesting question. How many generators do you folks have? Seems I often read threads that someone has several. You guys sell them, give them away, keep spares, or just collect them?

Well, I started out collecting Beanie Baby's, but folks considered that weird for a guy. So, one day I thought to myself, "Self, why don't you just give the Beanies to your wife and collect gensets?"

So, that is what I did. I now have 3 Chinese built Champions, a small 1400 watt Kawasaki, a Chinese built ELM3000 and a WW2 era 2 cycle Homelite 1,800 watt kicker. I reluctantly sold my Generac 5000 recently so I could afford to buy some gas for the remaining units (it was a sad occasion).

Only problem is they were so heavy that they broke the former Beanie Baby shelf in the living room and I now have to keep them in the garage.