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3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

professor95
Explorer
Explorer
professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy


For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at โ€œcloningโ€ reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a โ€œrunningโ€ display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. โ€œSupposedlyโ€ Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for โ€œabove average qualityโ€ Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an โ€œavailability listingโ€.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings โ€“ most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is โ€œreasonablyโ€ quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a โ€œlook alikeโ€ eng...






















Professor Randy T. Agee & Nancy Agee. Also Oscar, the totally ruined Dachshund.
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.
10,029 REPLIES 10,029

toprudder
Explorer
Explorer
Old & Slow wrote:
First, correction, my bad, should read all gensets in MY MH's were Onan. Most were 1800RPM.

I guess I should have figured that one out, makes sense now that I re-read it.

I was surprised that I could not find an 1800 rpm generator on their website. What is more interesting are the generators listed as 2880 rpm, I can't figure out how they get 60 Hz out of that. Possibly some sort of reduction drive is used??
Bob, Martha, and Matt.
Tucker, the Toy Poodle
'09 K-Z MXT20, '07 Chevy 2500HD Duramax

Toprudder.com

Old___Slow
Explorer
Explorer
Bob,

First, correction, my bad, should read all gensets in MY MH's were Onan. Most were 1800RPM.

The info' on(this page) from your post is vary interesting. One model the RV QG 2800 EVAP shows 2800w, single banger (cyl) OHV max hp 7.0 I always have more questions than answers. Wonder where this engine was made? The weight is quite light. Sound 70 DbA

You are always interesting, thanks for the post.

toprudder
Explorer
Explorer
Old & Slow wrote:
Before this past June, all gensets in past MH's were Onan. Most were 1800 RPM.

I don't think that is true. This page shows the current gasoline gensets, none of them are 1800rpm. The smaller ones (up to 4000w) are 3600 rpm, some are 2400, some are 2880. (???) The 50 hz models are proportionally slower.

The 4000w Microquiet in my '95 camper is 3600.

I think some of the older diesel models are 1800 rpm. It is interesting that the diesel page on the above website does not list rpms other than saying "constant" or "variable".

I've heard/read several times that typical motorhome gensets are 1800 rpms and that is why they are quieter than contractor generators. They are quieter, but rpms is not the reason.

Bob R.
Bob, Martha, and Matt.
Tucker, the Toy Poodle
'09 K-Z MXT20, '07 Chevy 2500HD Duramax

Toprudder.com

mikeinboise
Explorer
Explorer
Well, I sold my kipor kge3000ti yesterday and went to kragen today and bought the champion 3500 watt rv generator... I am very pleased with the quality so far, it starts very easy and is very simple!

I think I am going to cut the tank off and try to integrate it into my new motorhome where the generator would have went if it would have had one! All I need is a low flow 12v fuel pump right?
1998 Four Winds 5000 21RB Chevy "Sonoran Flyer"
2006 Springdale 179RD - SOLD

2004 FORD F-150 SuperCrew 4x4 5.4L
1999 Voyager 21' Pontoon Boat
2007 Kipor KGE1000ti
2007 Champion C46540 RV Generator

Old___Slow
Explorer
Explorer
I'm going to venture into really deep water here and hope someone stands by with a life boat. This is off the subject of MrWizard's post of the add for Costco offering for sale the 2000w/6.5hp @399.00 and will later be sold for $599...............Oldfordman I consider you a Master in the field of Engines and generators. I am not. I only know what to me is "real value" as I see it with any product with my limited knowledge of the product at hand, by doing some limited research. After purchasing two different brands of Chinese gensets I can comment on what I have experienced, both are a great VALUE and operate vary well. Now, I have enjoyed many years of the RV world. Before this past June, all gensets in past MH's were Onan. Most were 1800 RPM. This post is not meant to be a sound-off against that brand. Several pages could be written concerning problems experienced. The noise from the 1800 RMP Onan I do believe is close to the same as the 3500w Chinese gensets. One last item. Yes, the last 4kw Onan was large and heavy coming in at over 200lbs.

Hopefully others will leave their comments to all the above.

Oldfordman
Explorer
Explorer
Old & Slow wrote:
Oldfordman wrote:
Old & Slow wrote:
Oldfordman wrote:
WaltinColo wrote:
more chinese ? ..... Onans available from costco


With the price on those things, you might as well go out and buy a Honda...
My thoughts exactly. You just typed it quicker.



2000w/6.5hp ......what's with that?
Not sure I understand the question?


I'll bite,

ONE of my thoughts was/is, why spend the cash and buy a (soon @ Costco) $600 genny that will produce only 2000w with a 6.5hp engine which can produce 3500w....Name or a No name. If the above mentioned (?) want's to sell their genset for a high price, they can look elsewhere to find a buyer! I for one, will look for TRUE value. All over this and other threads I constantly hear, the genhead failed BUT the engine continued to run. The Honda knock off's must be good. So does this X brand have a superior genhead? Or is the name FOR SALE or what?
If the generator is an Inverter style and does most of it's work at reduced RPM then that engine is not putting out 6.5Hp. That is the rated output of the engine at 3600 RPM.

If you want a really quiet generator, reduce the engine speed to 1800 RPM or even lower to 900 RPM and then use a generator head with more poles that will yield 60 Hz. The downsize to this is that the slower you run the engine the larger it will have to be to produce the same output.
Life is full of choices. I choose to have fun!:)

Old___Slow
Explorer
Explorer
Oldfordman wrote:
Old & Slow wrote:
Oldfordman wrote:
WaltinColo wrote:
more chinese ? ..... Onans available from costco


With the price on those things, you might as well go out and buy a Honda...
My thoughts exactly. You just typed it quicker.



2000w/6.5hp ......what's with that?
Not sure I understand the question?


I'll bite,

ONE of my thoughts was/is, why spend the cash and buy a (soon @ Costco) $600 genny that will produce only 2000w with a 6.5hp engine which can produce 3500w....Name or a No name. If the above mentioned (?) want's to sell their genset for a high price, they can look elsewhere to find a buyer! I for one, will look for TRUE value. All over this and other threads I constantly hear, the genhead failed BUT the engine continued to run. The Honda knock off's must be good. So does this X brand have a superior genhead? Or is the name FOR SALE or what?

Oldfordman
Explorer
Explorer
Old & Slow wrote:
Oldfordman wrote:
WaltinColo wrote:
more chinese ? ..... Onans available from costco


With the price on those things, you might as well go out and buy a Honda...
My thoughts exactly. You just typed it quicker.



2000w/6.5hp ......what's with that?
Not sure I understand the question?
Life is full of choices. I choose to have fun!:)

MrWizard
Moderator
Moderator
well most of the time, they are NOT at max load, a 13.5k btu A/C is around 14 amps, thats 1/2 full load, then a few amps for the converter,

its only when we run the A/C & MW while watching TV that we hit full load, of course if you have the fridege & WH on auto so they use power then use the convection oven, now your pulling full load for whatever the COOKING time is

still in this case less load / less work is better for the genny motor
I can explain it to you.
But I Can Not understand it for you !

....

Connected using T-Mobile Home internet and Visible Phone service
1997 F53 Bounder 36s

Old___Slow
Explorer
Explorer
MrWizard wrote:


2000w/6.5hp ......what's with that?


it means the that the motor is NOT being worked to max load even when using all the RATED power of the genny head, it means longer engine life at full genny load

it means using a bigger motor than what takes to get the job done and having engine power to spare,

i like my champion, but I would be happy to see it with an 8 hp motor and a 3500 watt genny head

my OLD generac TXP45 was 10hp and 4500 watts


MrWizard:

Your answers are always right on the money. You know where of you speak. Down the road I wonder the life of our 3500/s loaded to the max. with the 6.5hp engines. Time will give us that answer.

MrWizard
Moderator
Moderator


2000w/6.5hp ......what's with that?


it means the that the motor is NOT being worked to max load even when using all the RATED power of the genny head, it means longer engine life at full genny load

it means using a bigger motor than what takes to get the job done and having engine power to spare,

i like my champion, but I would be happy to see it with an 8 hp motor and a 3500 watt genny head

my OLD generac TXP45 was 10hp and 4500 watts
I can explain it to you.
But I Can Not understand it for you !

....

Connected using T-Mobile Home internet and Visible Phone service
1997 F53 Bounder 36s

Old___Slow
Explorer
Explorer
Oldfordman wrote:
WaltinColo wrote:
more chinese ? ..... Onans available from costco


With the price on those things, you might as well go out and buy a Honda...
My thoughts exactly. You just typed it quicker.



2000w/6.5hp ......what's with that?

blkfe
Explorer
Explorer
Would it be possible to retrofit the panel meter available on the Canadian version to a C46540 model? Where (who)is the source for these meters?
I like the idea of knowing current draw.
Brad

Oldfordman
Explorer
Explorer
WaltinColo wrote:
more chinese ? ..... Onans available from costco


With the price on those things, you might as well go out and buy a Honda...
My thoughts exactly. You just typed it quicker.
Life is full of choices. I choose to have fun!:)

MrWizard
Moderator
Moderator
well to answer my own question.....YES

http://www.cumminsonan.com/portable/products/inverter

http://www.cumminsonan.com/portable/
I can explain it to you.
But I Can Not understand it for you !

....

Connected using T-Mobile Home internet and Visible Phone service
1997 F53 Bounder 36s