3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

Nancy and I just returned from an extended RV adventure. We started in late June at Buggs Island lake on the NC/Virginia border and worked our way down the NC coast to Emerald Isle. It was great! Internet access was either unavailable or the added cost more than I wanted to pay. We are back home for a few days to mow the tall grass in the field and spray all the fruit trees, grapes and rasberrys to rid them of hungry hoards of Japanese Beetles and then we are off again to Lake Anna. All of our campsites offered electricity, so the genset was not needed. Still, we found it convenient to have onboard as we could leave the dog in air conditioned comfort when we stopped to eat or shop. It was also nice to start the genset and air conditioner several miles before reaching our destination. That way the camper was not 140 degrees inside and setup/unpacking was a more pleasurable experience. It was also nice to have when the campground lost power from a thunderstorm for almost two hours. It was mid day, very hot and humid. Being able to run the AC during the dark interval was welcome. When the power returned the voltage was barely 90 volts. Probably due to everyone loading the grid trying to restart air conditioners. We let the generator run another 30 minutes until the voltage finally rose to an adequate but still low 108 VAC. I love RVing and the freedom to select so many places to visit and knowing I am not totally dependent on commercial power!

I wasn't too surprised to see that there were well over a 100 postings to the forum during my absence. But the one that really caught my eye was by N9WOS. He related his experience with a failed AVR ruining some expensive electronic equipment. This got me to thinking, how could this happen? The AVR used on the Champion and WEN PowerPro is designed to limit current to the field windings. It would be darn near impossible for the AVR to fail in a completely shorted condition so a to allow current to rise to maximum and produce an excessive voltage. Actually, the opposite is more likely to happen. If the AVR develops an open due to too much current or heat, the generator voltage will drop like a rock - usually to zero. The AVRs do have a small 10 turn pot to adjust voltage output. The pot sets the threshold current to an internal 3 tab adjustable voltage regulator IC. You can increase the voltage of the genset by adjusting the pot, but the IC is prone to failure from increased current (heat) as a result. Failure opens the circuit and again, output voltage goes to zero. I have no idea what the AVR design was on the more expensive genset he owned. Noting that he is a "Ham" (N9WOS) I am assuming he knows how the innards of these things work.

The capacitor regulation method used on most of the other gensets, like my ELM3000, is indeed simple and not as prone to failure. Failure of capacitors usually is a result of old age or extreme overvoltage puncturing the dilectric. This is not a common cause of failure in these gensets.

I too like the 12VDC output option, even if it is unregulated.

The brushes in the Champion and PowerPro will most likely outlast the rest of the genset. Brushes fail from friction, high currents and excessive heat. This failure is more common in DC generators and motors with a segmented armature that has large carbon brushes. Arcing is common at the contact point. The "brushes" in these gensets are more akin to "slip rings" with low currents and no arcing.

I personally want to reiterate that I do not believe I have ever said Champion was the best Chinese genset. But, admittedly I have extolled the benefits of a company with solid footing and tech service/parts that owns their own manufacturing facility as being beneficial to buyers who may need future repair parts and/or service.

I once owned a Japanese made bicycle before Japan adopted "world standardization". One look would tell you the design and workmanship of the bike was superior to "English" models. But, the problem was it had 22" tires, the chain was a pitch and width not common to other bikes and the gear selection was internal to the rear hub. When the bike needed replacement parts, there were none to be found. It eventually rusted away in the back yard.

This is in all probability not an issue to many Americans judging from what I see at our local trash "transfer station". Nancy often accuses me of bringing more stuff home than I take to dispose of. Recently my booty was a very nice self propelled Craftsman lawn mower in need of a new drive belt to the front wheels. A good looking Hoover vacuum cleaner also missing a drive belt to the rotating floor brush (easier to throw it away and buy a new one than fix the old one). Ironically, I did not need another lawn mower or vacuum cleaner - I have this fix-it mentality (obsession?). When I buy something I want reasonable assurance I can get parts as needed to keep it running (long after most folks would throw it away).

But, I digress, sorry and back to the topic.....

I do not believe that this forum has become an advertisement for Champion any more than other sites have become advertisements for Ford, GM, Fleetwood, Honda, Reese, Trojan or other well proven brand names. If Champion has risen to the top of the quagmire of Chinese gensets there is a reason that should be considered. Point: A significant number of the Chinese gensets brands that were available when this thread started are no longer being sold. Just try to find a propriety part for a Nikota 3000 sold by PepBoys just 2 years ago!

Fortunately, many parts are interchangeable between brands - especially with the engines. I recently received a replacement fuel tank from Champion for my 3500. I compared it to the fuel tank from my JD build ELM3000 (which was off and accessible). They were identical in every detail except the color! At least I can purchase some parts for the ELM3000 from Champion should the need arise. I doubt that I could ever get the parts from ELIM International.

Keep writing about your experiences with ALL Chinese built gensets. Ask questions - even seemingly simple ones. If you don't get an answer, ask again (and again). I personally have learned more than I ever imagined about the Chinese manufacturing and distribution process that I ever imagined. But, I am glad that these gensets don't run on petfood, need toothpaste or have highway grade tires.:)

[SonicLogic]

N9WOS wrote:

So I went with the prosource that is sold by biglots for $299 before tax.

You can purchase the exact same generator (it's now called a "Power Pro Craft") on ebay for the total cost of $276.19 including shipping via UPS to your front door.

[Oldfordman]

Welcome N9WOS. Your first post was interesting and I hope it is not your last on this forum.

As to Champion Generators, I bought mine after reading several pages of this thread which, at the time, was a lot shorter. I have been very pleased with my choice. The unit is in its second season of running the A/C, Microwave, and converter in my TT and even filled in for a day-long power outage last winter at my house. It has operated flawlessly and I expect it to do so for many more years as long as I do my part by changing oil regularly.

As for recommending the Champion over other Chinese Gensets, I do so for only two reasons. To me it makes little sense to consider buying a unit for $30-$50 less and then come on this forum asking what modifications are necessary to get a full 30 amp, 120V output in an RV-30 receptical when the unit that answers this need is readily available for the few extra dollars. It also makes little sense to consider a unit with questionable customer service (as indicated by numerous posts on some units) when Champion Customer Service has been praised almost universally by those that own them (I have had no need for it so I can't directly comment).

There are lots of good units on the market. The choice is up to the purchaser. Some have bought units that have not lived up to their expectation and others couldn't be happier. For the most part, Champion seems to be head and shoulders above some of the early offerings and it is designed to fit the needs of the average RV'er.

For those that like the high-end units, great. By all means they should have one of them. For those that are looking for a reasonably quiet, very reliable, unit. The Champion is hard to beat. As I have read this forum, less scorn is directed to those that promote "Chinese Generators" like the title of this thread indicates, than to those that try to convince everyone that a Honda or Yamaha Generator is the only acceptable unit to own.

Again, welcome and thanks for your offering.

[toprudder]

Wuttevr wrote:
Being successful boils down to having satisfied, and happy customers; both of which I am. In contrast, I have a week old unanswered email to Tekonsha.

AMEN.

In an ideal world, the products would never fail and we would never need customer service. However, I don't expect perfection anymore from a manufacturer. I do expect good customer service. There are a few companies that I will not deal with because of that. (Don't ask).

Bob R.

[Wuttevr]

Trolling must be fun, otherwise so many people wouldn't be doing it. I will have to try it someday, if I have nothing better to do.

CPE CS update-

I was coming up on a year of ownership and decided to finally do something about the very minor leaks in the welds in my gas tank. They were hardly even annoying, but thought I might as well do something about it. Then it hit me that I probably never sent my warranty registration card in. I am pretty bad about that. I am having problems with my Prodigy, and noticed I never sent that one in either. Definitely my problem. However, one email to CPE got the ball rolling, and after providing proof of purchase, I had a bright yellow new gas tank on my door step.

Keep in mind that I never found the original receipt. But they worked with me and we found a solution. I think it is safe to say that any other manufacturer would have told me to go jump in a lake.

Please note- I am not advocating being remiss about sending in the requested paperwork to become elibible for warranty coverage. In fact, I felt like a pretty serious heal even asking.

Being successful boils down to having satisfied, and happy customers; both of which I am. In contrast, I have a week old unanswered email to Tekonsha.

[COnative]

I took my Champion RV ready generator to lake Granby this weekend which has an elevation of 8300 ft. Was concerned about elevation and potential carb and power problems. This thing started first pull and ran great. It even ran my 13500 AC although I didn't need it as the temps only approached the low 80's. I have a cap on the back of my pickup and a carpet kit. I decided to leave it in the bed and brought a medium size box fan that I placed it front of the genset. Plugged the fan into the single 120 recepticle and RV into 30 amp RV plug. The fan blew cool air from front slide window to the air intake and carried heat from underneath and from exhaust out of side windows. My truck has a solid pane of glass on the truck side so I don't have to worry about exhaust in the cab. It was quiet and never got hot. Checked the carpet underneath at least 50 times and it never got hot. Might try to find a big rubber mat to put genset on for future use. It was a nice setup for sure and we really enjoyed those 4 days not worrying about running out of power...

[Gulfcoast]

Here's a great little generator that I am well pleased with also.

It has a Jiang Dong engine and barely sips fuel...

2400-watt Generator

[jpkiljan]

N9WOS wrote:
. . .
I found this because I was looking for a cheep generator for backup power at the house, plus or minus a few times I need to run something without access to mains power.

. . .

And I do not want one with a 220V output, or fancy 120V plugs. Just a basic set of normal outlets without any fancy 120-240 switches to break or malfunction.

. . .

Good day, and thanks for everyone's help. 🙂

This is just to comment briefly on the need for a 240 VAC (220V) output. I also wanted my new PowerPro 3000 watt generator for the same purpose--not so much for RV use as much as for an emergency supply for my cabin and for occasional field use.

Basically, there seems to be two choices when the power goes out and you are trying to plug your house into a portable generator: The first is to simply run an extension cord from the generator in through a door or a window and then plug everything you can (fridge, lamps, computer, window fans, freezer, TV, portable AC, etc) into that cord until you reach your load limit or you run out of additional extension cords. 120 VAC works fine for that choice if your generator can deliver full power to the 120 VAC sockets, as my generator can. But remember, some portable generators won't feed full power to its 120-volt receptacles without modification.

However, if the things you really need to power up don't have plugs (e.g. ceiling lamps, well pumps, ceiling fans, furnace blowers, yard lights, etc) then you really have to go with the second choice and power the house through a transfer switch. A transfer switch can also feed any of your existing wall sockets.

The cost for a low-end 30-amp transfer switch is pretty reasonable from what I can see on the Ebay listings for these, but they all seem to insist on being fed with a 240-volt plug from your generator. (Note: They also need to be put in by a real electrician unless you are super-sure you know what you are doing. If you don't do that, you run the financial and emotional risk of killing a lineman during an outage through feedback into the utility's power grid.)

The plug that feeds the transfer switch from your generator is a 240-volt three-wire single-phase plug with ground, such as the four-pin twist-lock L14-30 plug and receptacle that came with my generator, or one of its heftier kin, if your panel and generator can handle more amps. Despite its name, the plug handles two phases and those are split between each half of the transfer panel and each provides 120 VAC to the house wiring through individual breakers with half of them operating on each phase. Normally, there is also a single 240-volt breaker that taps both phases so it can be used to power a single burner element on a stove top, or a 240-volt well pump, or anything else that really has to have a 240-volt feed.

The moral of this is that, even if you know you'll never need to power a 240-volt appliance or circuit, 240-volts is still a very nice thing to have if you ever plan to feed your house (or anyone else's house) through a transfer switch.

--John

[MrWizard]

Welcome N9WOS..

my first chinese generator a champion 1200-1500 was a brushless model, and it performed very well, then i stepped up to a bigger model and got the RV 3500 model

you had a bad experience with an AVR unit, and didn't want another one.. so be it

the point is this thread helped you find what you wanted and you are happy with the purchase and that is good

gennys with AVR produce cleaner power, that is better for some fuctions and i prefer those type.. but we who cheer the champion do so because of the CS and that clean power. I have never said pro-source is bad. pep boys sells prosource or is it ( power PRO ) they had other brands before that, the CS for those brands was non-existent after the pepoys return period expired.

enjoy your generator.

[2003Summit]

Hey guys. Speaking of other brands…

Question here for my fellow Canadians...

I have still not found a work around for my Champion 120V re-wire. I am stuck at 220V, and only half the current I want. If I *could* buy the RV version I would, but I don't think it's available in my market.

My Canadian question is, does anyone know of any other Canadian available brand in the 3000W range that "can" be re-wired for 120V only (to maximizing current) and a source for it? Where are these other Chinese clones being sold? The only other I have found is P3Power from Peavey mart, but they are $599.00, and I got my champion from Costco for only $330. Any other ideas guys?

Thanks all.

[racefan1965]

N9WOS wrote:
I subscribed to this forum to make this one post.

I thank the people that have contributed to this thread. It’s a large collection of info about this class of generator that has helped me make a better buying decision. I stumbled across it a few weeks ago by accident. I managed to read the thread in one day. It took me an entire Saturday.

I found this because I was looking for a cheep generator for backup power at the house, plus or minus a few times I need to run something without access to mains power.

I was originally going to purchase a champion generator. But after finding this forum thread and reading it, I found out that I needed to go with something else.

I though that all the china clones had a brush-less generator. After reading this thread, I found out that the champion has a brush type generator with an electronic AVR. Considering the fact that I have owned a brush type generator with AVR in the past, and the fact that I had it destroy equipment that was worth more than the generator was, when the AVR went out. A considerable feat considering that the generator was worth over $2000. That means that the AVR is an automatic disqualification for me.

The brush-less generators with the capacitive energy feedback circuit automatically push the rotor to magnetic saturation. That is the standard running condition. That means that the fixed output voltage is built in from the factory. There is no way it can over-volt. That is because you can’t go past core saturation. I know that the saturating core causes the depression in the peaks of the ac output wave but I have never had that damage anything. The worst it can do is mess with microwaves and electronic clocks that look for the AC peak for timing information. They see two peaks and either stop functioning or run at twice the normal speed. But I an not going to be running those two devices on the generator so that is not a problem.

And I do not want one with a 220V output, or fancy 120V plugs. Just a basic set of normal outlets without any fancy 120-240 switches to break or malfunction.

And I wanted one with banana plug binding post for the 12V output. The generators with A fancy 12 plug has always been a pain for me because you can never keep track of the original 12V pigtail.

So I went with the prosource that is sold by biglots for $299 before tax. I had seen the schematic posted by another person that bought one earlier on in this thread, and it is a brush-less generator, and it has a basic 120 outlet with banana plug binding post for the 12V output. It meets all the criteria that I am looking for.

I got the 3000W version about a week ago. No leaks or dents, no lose parts. I have already run it through it’s break-in period and it purrs like a kitten. I have a 1250W/2500W resistive load bank that I used to load test it, and it pulls the 2500W load with little to no struggle. Voltage stays around 115V at 2.5KW. You can’t hardly even tell the difference when you just put the 1250W load bank on it. No load voltage is around 125V.

The engine is made by jiang dong.

It has low oil shutdown.

It has double ball bearings in the motor. It has a ball bearing in the generator head. That means that it is a fully ball bearing driveline. The same as my $2000 2400W generator we got back in 1980.

It has a cast iron cylinder bore, Something are $2000 generator did not have.

It has overhead valves, something are $2000 generator did not have.

It runs a lot longer on 3 gallon of gas under the same load than are $2000 generator

It’s lighter than the $2000 generator.

The only thing are $2000 generator had that this one does not have is auto idle control.

I like it enough that I am thinking about getting the 2000W prosource version that they have for $199 for a general use unit for lighting and other small day to day tool use. It will be easier on gas than the 3000W version when running small loads in remote locations. That will allow me to leave the 3000W one put back for emergency use.

A side note. Some people have been questioning if the other china clones have cast iron bores. Or if all the manufactures are putting a cast iron liner in there engines. I have a comment about that. Cast iron liners in small engines can not be put in after the block is poured. It is not like diesel engines with replaceable cylinder liners. The cast iron liner has to be in place when the block is poured. Previously in this thread, people have stated that all the blocks for the china clone manufactures are made by one or two companies. So if one or two companies are known to have cast iron bores in their engines. That means that all the clones have a cast iron bore.


A final observation by me on this thread. Something that come about from reading this thread in one day. At the start of the thread, you had people telling the honda people that just because it isn’t a honda brand, doesn’t mean that it’s junk. They may not have the recognition that some of the large brands have, but they are still a good value for the money.

But it seams that at the end of the thread, some of the same people that was saying the pre-stated statements were now saying things like “Why buy X when you can have a champion for $50 more.” I find it kind of humorous myself. 😛

And everyone that comes on the board asking about buying some other china clone. They get brow beat by the CCC (champion cheering club). The first thing people do is start trying to persuade them to go with a champion. 😞

The funniest thing I seen was where someone was accusing a different brand of being a “champion clone” A clone calling someone a clone. Since when did the champion stop being a clone? Maybe the other generator looks like the champion because both the champion and the other generator are a clone of the same original generator. :S

The domination of this thread by the CCC has basically turned it into a free advertising venue for champion. something the moderators should have put a clamp on a long time ago. If you can look through the prestated bias then the thread is a good source of information.

Good day, and thanks for everyone's help. 🙂

First of welcome to the CCC. (Chinese cheering club) I am a champion owner and while I've never told someone that champion was the only chinese generator worth while, I do like it and will talk up their customer service. Any company with a CS department that reacts to problems the way they (champion) does deserves a little recognition IMO.
Not trying to be a jerk, but don't you think it's a little ironic how you go on and on about this prosource generator then turn around and complain that some champion owners are too zealous in their posts about champion generators? I did. 🙂

Rick

[Gulfcoast]

Welcome N9WOS...

I also have the same PROSOURCE generator from Big Lots. I've used it three times in power outages at home, and am very well pleased with it's performance in every way.

It's so nice (in a long power outage) to sit in the den with a small window A/C pouring out cold air, the TV on Andy Griffith, sipping ice cold Dr. Pepper from a humming refrigerator and having all the lights that we need. My home was lit up like Christmas, while the rest of the neighborhood sat by candles in the dark.

That $288 was probably the best $$$ I've ever spent!

Thanks for your informative report...

[Wgeorge11]

Welcome aboard N9WOS. You are one fast reader! It took me days to cover this link, probably because I make wires smoke and can't put it back. Whatever, this forum has given me some understanding of available portable power, however skewed and convoluted it may be, and issues others have confronted in applying the machine to serve their needs. It's not about Honda, Champion et al, although each has its cheering crowd. It's about learning what's out there, what works, and what doesn't. It's about making a noisy machine quieter, retrofitting exhausts, and solving problems why mine won't do what yours does.
I hope for two things;
The moderators recognize the value of this very long thread to novices like me, and
That you continue interacting with those of us less knowledgeable about the mysteries of power generators.
Happy camping.

[N9WOS]

I subscribed to this forum to make this one post.

I thank the people that have contributed to this thread. It’s a large collection of info about this class of generator that has helped me make a better buying decision. I stumbled across it a few weeks ago by accident. I managed to read the thread in one day. It took me an entire Saturday.

I found this because I was looking for a cheep generator for backup power at the house, plus or minus a few times I need to run something without access to mains power.

I was originally going to purchase a champion generator. But after finding this forum thread and reading it, I found out that I needed to go with something else.

I though that all the china clones had a brush-less generator. After reading this thread, I found out that the champion has a brush type generator with an electronic AVR. Considering the fact that I have owned a brush type generator with AVR in the past, and the fact that I had it destroy equipment that was worth more than the generator was, when the AVR went out. A considerable feat considering that the generator was worth over $2000. That means that the AVR is an automatic disqualification for me.

The brush-less generators with the capacitive energy feedback circuit automatically push the rotor to magnetic saturation. That is the standard running condition. That means that the fixed output voltage is built in from the factory. There is no way it can over-volt. That is because you can’t go past core saturation. I know that the saturating core causes the depression in the peaks of the ac output wave but I have never had that damage anything. The worst it can do is mess with microwaves and electronic clocks that look for the AC peak for timing information. They see two peaks and either stop functioning or run at twice the normal speed. But I an not going to be running those two devices on the generator so that is not a problem.

And I do not want one with a 220V output, or fancy 120V plugs. Just a basic set of normal outlets without any fancy 120-240 switches to break or malfunction.

And I wanted one with banana plug binding post for the 12V output. The generators with A fancy 12 plug has always been a pain for me because you can never keep track of the original 12V pigtail.

So I went with the prosource that is sold by biglots for $299 before tax. I had seen the schematic posted by another person that bought one earlier on in this thread, and it is a brush-less generator, and it has a basic 120 outlet with banana plug binding post for the 12V output. It meets all the criteria that I am looking for.

I got the 3000W version about a week ago. No leaks or dents, no lose parts. I have already run it through it’s break-in period and it purrs like a kitten. I have a 1250W/2500W resistive load bank that I used to load test it, and it pulls the 2500W load with little to no struggle. Voltage stays around 115V at 2.5KW. You can’t hardly even tell the difference when you just put the 1250W load bank on it. No load voltage is around 125V.

The engine is made by jiang dong.

It has low oil shutdown.

It has double ball bearings in the motor. It has a ball bearing in the generator head. That means that it is a fully ball bearing driveline. The same as my $2000 2400W generator we got back in 1980.

It has a cast iron cylinder bore, Something are $2000 generator did not have.

It has overhead valves, something are $2000 generator did not have.

It runs a lot longer on 3 gallon of gas under the same load than are $2000 generator

It’s lighter than the $2000 generator.

The only thing are $2000 generator had that this one does not have is auto idle control.

I like it enough that I am thinking about getting the 2000W prosource version that they have for $199 for a general use unit for lighting and other small day to day tool use. It will be easier on gas than the 3000W version when running small loads in remote locations. That will allow me to leave the 3000W one put back for emergency use.

A side note. Some people have been questioning if the other china clones have cast iron bores. Or if all the manufactures are putting a cast iron liner in there engines. I have a comment about that. Cast iron liners in small engines can not be put in after the block is poured. It is not like diesel engines with replaceable cylinder liners. The cast iron liner has to be in place when the block is poured. Previously in this thread, people have stated that all the blocks for the china clone manufactures are made by one or two companies. So if one or two companies are known to have cast iron bores in their engines. That means that all the clones have a cast iron bore.


A final observation by me on this thread. Something that come about from reading this thread in one day. At the start of the thread, you had people telling the honda people that just because it isn’t a honda brand, doesn’t mean that it’s junk. They may not have the recognition that some of the large brands have, but they are still a good value for the money.

But it seams that at the end of the thread, some of the same people that was saying the pre-stated statements were now saying things like “Why buy X when you can have a champion for $50 more.” I find it kind of humorous myself. 😛

And everyone that comes on the board asking about buying some other china clone. They get brow beat by the CCC (champion cheering club). The first thing people do is start trying to persuade them to go with a champion. 😞

The funniest thing I seen was where someone was accusing a different brand of being a “champion clone” A clone calling someone a clone. Since when did the champion stop being a clone? Maybe the other generator looks like the champion because both the champion and the other generator are a clone of the same original generator. :S

The domination of this thread by the CCC has basically turned it into a free advertising venue for champion. something the moderators should have put a clamp on a long time ago. If you can look through the prestated bias then the thread is a good source of information.

Good day, and thanks for everyone's help. 🙂

[MrWizard]

I have a pet PEEVE, it concerns the use of abbreviations & acronyms, that people mis use .

A/C is air condtioning

AC is electrical power

TV is television and has been for 60yrs

T-V tow vehicle is new and related to towing

misusing the first one really confuses new people

the second one is just a minor annoyance example ' can i put a computer in my TV ' instead of T-V