3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[ol_Bombero-JC]

Try US Carb - they sell propane conversions as well as dual-fuel
& tri-fuel conversions -
both do-it-yourself and (in the case of Honda 3000i) "turn-key"
installations.
Would think they should have something that would work with a Champion.
JC

[ceeyahd1]

How many hours will a Champion generator run on BBQ size propane tank? approximatly.

[ceeyahd1]

Does it run quiter than gas? Is there a kit to convert the Champion generator to propane?

[toprudder]

P.J wrote:
Propane is easier to handle and store. (IMO)

Probably burns cleaner with less Carbon Monoxide also.

Absolutely! The biggest advantage is that it does not go bad and can be stored for years until needed. Also does not varnish up the carb.

[P_J1]

Propane is easier to handle and store. (IMO)

Probably burns cleaner with less Carbon Monoxide also.

[ceeyahd1]

What are the advantages of propane over gas Generators?

[bobandcat]

I'm interested in a PROPANE CONVERSION for the Champion genny.

Does anyone have a lead on an inexpensive conversion kit??
I really don't want to spend half of the Champion's price to convert it.

Bob

[ol_Bombero-JC]

PJ - "about gave myself a hernia today . . . ."
SAVE your back and . . .

I can't claim to be the "originator" for this but -
I have a PullRite SuperGlide 5th wheel hitch. Like other hitches, it
can be removed from the p/up - for a totally "clean" bed.

However, it takes two (or three) men and a boy to lift/move it - weighs
about 250 lbs. When delivered box with all the brackets, etc., indicated 350!

There are folks who use chain hoists, engine hoists, etc. The simpliest,
easiest, and least-expensive (cheapest!) is an electric hoist from Harbor
Freight. It weighs about 30 lbs, stores in a box not much biger than a
lunch pail - and lifts the hitch - OR A GENERATOR - with ease . . . and only
one finger to push the up/down button.

Uses and places to "hang" it are limitless both inside and out.

Cost is about $60 for the 440 lb capacity or $75 for the 880 lb capacity.
[Check the on-line price before you go to a store - can be more in the store
but I've never had them not honor the on-line price/es].

Excellent job on the enclosure! Like everyone else, I'll be watching
the revisions/updates.
JC

[P_J1]

StaJs, that thing is probably nice and light without that tank and fuel, huh?
Looking good. Is that a carb kit for the Honda GX series you have there?

I about gave my self a hernia today getting mine out by myself.

[P_J1]

Thanks for the tips, all duly noted.

I have other thoughts on my venting (sides).
It's tough to find a happy medium between nice flow and................... letting all the noise out! I bought a fancy, "filtering" floor vent, it has pleated filter material that would act as a muffler.
A top fan is an absolute must. I ran it for about 10 minutes (longest I've had it in the enclosure) while I uploaded the pictures in my last post. When I went back out it was quite warm in there (with the top on)
There is no doubt that it is stacking. We are in about 35* temps today, I would likely be running it in MUCH warmer ambient air.

I am still on the break in oil, I need to warm it up again today before I change it out. (barely has 5 hours, just want to get it done before the long winter ahead).


I am in fact open to a completely new design. Lighter, simpler and/or collapsible would all be interesting to hear about if anyone has one built or in mind.

[StaJs]

Champion on propane!

Give the prime button a quick bump and it still starts on the first pull. Next up is to disable the shut-off switch, you stop it by shutting off the fuel. Also, I am going to make something to replace the old gas tank to keep the rain off or check into one of these plastic dog houses to keep the rain off and add some noise abatement.

[bobandcat]

PJ,
Nice job!

I thought about your enclosure from an air circulation point of view.

Here is another alternative to try:
1. Install the fan in the top of the box near the exhaust end.
2. Raise the clearance around the bottom of the box to about 1 1/2 ". This would be the cooling air intake around the entire perimeter of the box.
3. Close off the louvered opening on the engine side where most of the noise is at.
4. Monitor temps in the box as well as judging noise abatement.


If you want to stay with your original design, here are some suggestions for it.
The louvered opening on the engine side is good for the engine air cleaner intake and engine cooling.

However, the generator head takes in cooling air through the metal grille on the end of the head and exhausts it through louvers on the bottom near the engine. I would add a louvered opening at the generator head. You could use the same type of louver that you used on the other side and possible eliminate the pvc outlet for the exhaust by cutting a round hole in the louver to feed the exhaust pipe through. The exhaust and genny head side is the quiet end of the generator. Most of the noise comes from the engine mechanicals and air cleaner.

As it stands, you don't have a good hot air exit. Once you add the fan to the top, that should take care of that. Make sure that you use a 120v fan. Earlier in this thread, someone used a 12v fan running off of the genny charge circuit. It quickly burned out as the charge circuit probably puts out too much voltage for running the fan.

[P_J1]

bugdude wrote:
PJ
how about some pictures and a description how you built the enclosure.

I shall do my best :W:

I started with 1/2" plywood, screwed and caulked the rectangle. (make it bigger than I did, I would have added more insulation if I was to do it again.

I used 1" think Rubatex brand tank insulation, cut to fit and glued in, smooth side to the wood, porus side out. This is the material that I toiled over the most. At first I was going to use rigid poly styrene, till I realized how much it was (WOW, the thick stuff is EXPENSIVE!) I ended up finding the stuff I used and someone gave it to me as it had been laying in the same spot for several years. I left the exhaust side un-covered, #1 because I don't want to have an inferno, #2 because I made the box too small to slide it easily over the generator. I used aluminum outside corners like you would find on a shed, I had they laying around, they can be easily found at Home Cheapo or Blowes.

As you can see from the pics, I have a standard floor register in one side, plan on putting at least one more of those in, maybe a 8X10 on the muffler guard side. The plan is to put a 70CFM fan in, forcing air out one side, I haven't exactally figured out what I should do there (fan blowing in, out, which side is best, etc.) I 'm welcome to suggestions or comments on that.

For the exhaust, I fabbed up a 1" conduit 90*, then I decided it was too much work to bolt up and unbolt it with the enclosure on, so I whacked it off. I can now easily slide the box over the stub exhaust and move it around as I please. The early plan was to make up a "Venturi" style pipe, consisting of a 2" PVC pipe and some 90*'s to get the exhaust over head height. I have gotten lazy on that, but do have all the parts I need. I planned on leaving an air gap at the (removable) connection to the 3" black ABS you see there caulked into the side.

Also, when I first built it, it was flush to the ground all the way around. I looked at this as not a good thing. 1) Water, even though it 's painted, I wouldn't want this wood to be sitting in saturated dirt, wicking up the water. 2) AIR, there is probably NOT enough outside air getting to this thing as it, I figured having it sit up 1/2" 360 degrees around would be a step in the right direction.
I used 1/4" think rubber conveyor pieces, cut into small triangles, then screwed and glued them in place on the 4 bottom corners.

As you can see, I had some extra velcro, and a glue gun, so I made up a clear top for it out of some plexi-glass. This way, I can see what is going on in there, maybe even put in a remote (these are very affordable now) temp gauge in there so I can monitor the temps inside the box from in the camper.
Thoughts:
1) The fan: Hardwired to the 12V, mounted in the box it self? Made to fit somewhere on top as like a bathroom blower (heat rises). Plugged into the 120V
2) The overall design,....too bulky? It weighs about 15 lbs the way it is, I didn't want to make it SO big that I had trouble getting it in and out of the back of the truck, handling it myself and such.

Comments, suggestions,ideas complaints, snide comments about the design or fit and finish are all welcome.
I have about $25 and three hours into what you see here (not counting thinking time) Would probably cost more for someone without some of the materials around the house or shed, I improvised quite a bit here in case the final product was something I took one look at an decided was total junk. Worst case scenario, I have a nice box with clear lid to store my generator in the shed with!

[ceeyahd1]

Would anyone care to share pictures of enclosures they built to cut down on generator noise.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

Phil-am - Backtrack a bit to the amount of (LOTS!) usage the poster
from IL got with his Champion during recent power outages due to ice storms.

I would agree with Gulfcoast - buy one NOW, if something new and better
comes out ("whenever"), sell it!
The amount you lose will probably be less than a night/s in a hotel/motel
for 3 - or more!
JC