3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Dan86300zxt]

Dan86300zxt wrote:

Dan86300zxt wrote:
Thanks Professor and TeamSlacker.

^^Looks like the PD9160A (60amp,1000watts continous 120v input required)
is what I am going to go with...I'd go with a larger 70 or 80 amp, but two things tell me to be careful...the size load on the generator and the lack of understanding if there are any peaks/surge power requirement for these chargers when in boost mode.(I'm am failing to realize what Professor is trying to tell me about not worrying on the PD design chargers.)

*I did some measuring today and it looks like I am going to be going to Sams Club for 6 GC batteries.(lol, managed to come up with the funds to make life work)

**Yes, Professor...I am very aware of the sensitivity of the specific items for the generator and the need for sufficient airflow/cooling.

I will be engineering the MH compartment to move more air than what the manufacture has designed into the completed original generator and relocating certain items further away from heat.

***I found my MH has a 5/16" fuel injection hose with a shut-off valve coming from the original gas tank.(looks like its located at about the 1/4 fuel level height.)
-I am spinning the idea of putting a cheap low pressure pump inline with this to a custom smaller stainless steel tank that has a liquid level switch to control the pump...leaving the custom tank as a gravity feed to the carb on the generator and venting the tank to a charcoal canister I have.
-The charcoal canister can be "T'd" into the Valve cover vent for the generator to suck the fumes through the air cleaner and into the engine for combustion.
^^^Hmmm...this way I am merely looking at the mounting of the engine and generator with the electrical slightly relocated...no large goofy sized plastic fuel tank to deal with or any of the plastics period. I am also looking at the cooling fan that can be removed from this engine...it seems to me, in principle, that the original engine fan is going to mess with my airflow design for the cabinet. I am planning to funnel two 4 amp/900cfm fans worth of airflow through this cabinet(a suck blow total of 8 amps/1800cfm).
Dan

**********************************************************************-Professor95,TeamSlacker, Wizard...Someone who knows:

*I am planning all my wiring for my new components. After alot of research on here and other places, I am finding conflicting information regarding a few things that I hope you can clarify for me.

My 23' 1977 Dodge MH has two wire a/c outlets through-out it...not the 3-wire todays standard type.
-My new genset, and Go-Power pure sine wave converter have Grounding/Bonding recomendations to chassis ground.(maybe my PD 60amp converter/charger too..I haven't received it yet..)

*I know that this MH uses a completely isolated 12v inverter and used to have a single 12v battery for all the house 12v circuits.(meaning that all positive and ground connections were kept to the system wiring itself for the house only..in other words, no grounds leading to any chassis ground to the MH)
*I know that the MH engine battery and chassis electrical is seperate from the House and uses the chassis as ground for the 12v system.

-Question is..."What do I do with these ground or bonding points on each one of these new pieces of equipment I am adding to my MH.

Is there an update I should be doing to the a/c wiring and outlets to be safer?

HELP!!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
UPDATE!
-I removed the house circuit breaker cover and can see a white wire(neutral)bar, a ground bar, and 1 larger 30 amp breaker, and a 1 standard sized split "dual" breaker 15 amp/20 amp. The Breaker box is of the 50 amp service type(says on the inside of the cover.) My Shore power RV plug is wired to a junction box inside the spare tire carrier area on my MY. The ground wire from my RV shore power plug is grounded to that junction box, and a seperate ground with no plastic covering, along with a 10-2 wire...leads to the house breaker box and 30 amp breaker.(so there is actually 2 grounds leading from the shore power junction box to the breaker box)
-In the rear of my MH,(The spare tire area)..there is a special outlet that matches the RV shore power plug. This was used for the original generator on the MH.(I'll be hardwiring this to my Inverter)

*Am I right in thinking that the Generator, Pure sine wave inverter, and battery charger/inverter should have the Bonded/Ground safety connections made to the rear shore power junction box?????

**BTW...I figured out how to "pop" off the outlet covers in the MH. What I for a wired outlet is of a different variety...there is no screw at the top and bottom securing the outlet into place, such as the design like in most homes today. I don't know how to pull the outlet receptacle out any further with-out making a mess to fix.

***AND.....I was wrong...these all are 3 wire outlets. Meaning, they will accept a plug with the ground.(for some reason, I thought they were only two.) I was wanting to switch a couple of the outlet recepticles to the GFCI type for safety..the outlet near the sink and bathroom......BUT.....I just remembered, the pure sine wave inverter I have uses a GFCI, so as long as the recomendation on the Bonding/Ground connection is correct, and assuming my outlets are grounded...I should be safe.
(I picked up 6- 6 Volt Energizer 220AH GC2's from Sams Club yesterday..$79.95 ea!!!...Getting excited to wrap this up!!)
Ground/Bonding recomendations please...help.
Dan

[byates]

!

[rizwan]

Im using 3000w Loncin chinese generator from last 1 year. which run 5 fans and 1 deep freezer and some lights.
I have some question?

1. I run this generator 3 hours daily on natural gas the spark plug gap is 0.20 mm and it is NGK bp6ey V power i need to know the gap of plug and the plug itself is ok i mean if i move the gap from 0.30 mm to 0.40 mm the generator is very hard to start.

2. Engine is 196cc what is the valve clearence of the engine i lost the manual but i adjust the valve on this specification exhaust 0.20mm and intake is 0.15mm (cold).
I need to know if clearnce are too tight or too lose does makes any problem please explain it.

3. Im using the oil for crankcase is 20w50 caltex havoline deposit shield and change it after 200 hour is it ok.

4. I did not use gasoline since i convert my generator on NG so the gasoline tank is useless for me can i remove it from generator does it any harm from cooling point of view.

5. When generator is started it shows a voltage on voltmeter of 220 volt accurate and after an hour the voltage is decline to 215 volt on same load what is the reason behind this.

6. Explain the lubrication time of alternator stator bearing.

[RTompkins3]

TeamSlacker wrote:
I planned on leaving the new AP2kw alone till I could do some more db tests, but the rattle got the best of me and I tore it apart and picked up a couple cans of ruberized undercoating. Here's a peak inside.
http://flic.kr/p/9nP5CE
http://flic.kr/p/9nP61u

urlified:

http://flic.kr/p/9nP5CE

http://flic.kr/p/9nP61u

[professor95]

Spectre21 wrote:
Just a heads up (I may be late to the game), I just noticed that the SuperGen Products website is offering FREE shipping for a limited time. Could be the last day as far as I know.

http://supergenproducts.com/index.html

I was told free shipping would apply until April 15th.

[TeamSlacker]

I planned on leaving the new AP2kw alone till I could do some more db tests, but the rattle got the best of me and I tore it apart and picked up a couple cans of ruberized undercoating. Here's a peak inside.
http://flic.kr/p/9nP5CE
http://flic.kr/p/9nP61u

[Old___Slow]

🙂

[jlaustin]

Spectre21 wrote:
Just a heads up (I may be late to the game), I just noticed that the SuperGen Products website is offering FREE shipping for a limited time. Could be the last day as far as I know.

http://supergenproducts.com/index.html

I ordered a SuperGenTent and the Lazy Man's Oil Drain on the free shipping promotion. They promptly shipped it FedEx Ground. I haven't tested the Tent, yet, but it looks first-rate as far as quality and finish. The material is heavy weight and looks very durable. The "Lazy Man's" oil drain is perfect for my application as my genset is enclosed on the sides, so I can run the sight-tube outside the frame and be able to easily check the oil level.

They apparently made a minor mistake in that one of the Tent frame legs was not the correct material (they use a higher temp PVC on the exhaust end). However, THEY caught the mistake after shipment, contacted me by email, and informed me the correct leg is being sent!

So, looks like initially they have a quality product and good customer service!

Since I have an enclosed DuroPower with fan-forced ventilation, I'm going to be using it slightly modified from stock ... I'll report on that later once I've had time to "play" with it!

Regards,
John

[Dan86300zxt]

professor95 wrote:

Dan86300zxt wrote:

-Question is..."What do I do with these ground or bonding points on each one of these new pieces of equipment I am adding to my MH.

Is there an update I should be doing to the a/c wiring and outlets to be safer?

HELP!!

Dan,

I need to know something.

The shore power cord for your motor home... If it is for a 30 amp supply, does it have three wires? If so, is the grounding wire (green) attached to the vehicle frame? If not, where is it attached?

If it is something other than 30 amp (20 amp or 50-50 amp) please explain the connection to the vehicle of the shore power connection.

*I have a typical RV style 3 prong 30 amp power cord for a/c. It can be plugged into a matching 3 pronged outlet(located under the spare tire/rear cargo hatch) that will be hardwired to my Go-Power 2000 watt inverter(this outlet used to be hardwired to the original generator). The 30 amp RV power cord is wired to a junction box in the rear of the MH, located under that spare tire/rear cargo area). I can see a seperate non-sheilded raw copper wire leading from this junction box. Also leading from this junction box is some white 12-2 wire. Inside the MH, at the breaker box, I can see where the raw un-shielded ground is connected to the steel breaker box and the 12-2 enters inside for the main 30 amp breaker.
I do not know anything more about the outlets to the RV because they are of a different style than what you find in the home. In the home, the outlet covers have a screw securing the outlet cover located in the center, between the outlets. I do not see anything securing the outlet covers to the rv outlets and don't want to break them trying to figure out how they come off. If I could pop off/remove these RV outlet covers...I would look to see what they did with, or see if they are using the ground. At that point, I would concider installing a few GFI outlets or at a minimum, a few std. grounding outlets, with matching new covers...

[professor95]

Dan86300zxt wrote:

-Question is..."What do I do with these ground or bonding points on each one of these new pieces of equipment I am adding to my MH.

Is there an update I should be doing to the a/c wiring and outlets to be safer?

HELP!!

Dan,

I need to know something.

The shore power cord for your motor home... If it is for a 30 amp supply, does it have three wires? If so, is the grounding wire (green) attached to the vehicle frame? If not, where is it attached?

If it is something other than 30 amp (20 amp or 50-50 amp) please explain the connection to the vehicle of the shore power connection.

[Spectre21]

Just a heads up (I may be late to the game), I just noticed that the SuperGen Products website is offering FREE shipping for a limited time. Could be the last day as far as I know.

http://supergenproducts.com/index.html

[Dan86300zxt]

Dan86300zxt wrote:
Thanks Professor and TeamSlacker.

^^Looks like the PD9160A (60amp,1000watts continous 120v input required)
is what I am going to go with...I'd go with a larger 70 or 80 amp, but two things tell me to be careful...the size load on the generator and the lack of understanding if there are any peaks/surge power requirement for these chargers when in boost mode.(I'm am failing to realize what Professor is trying to tell me about not worrying on the PD design chargers.)

*I did some measuring today and it looks like I am going to be going to Sams Club for 6 GC batteries.(lol, managed to come up with the funds to make life work)

**Yes, Professor...I am very aware of the sensitivity of the specific items for the generator and the need for sufficient airflow/cooling.

I will be engineering the MH compartment to move more air than what the manufacture has designed into the completed original generator and relocating certain items further away from heat.

***I found my MH has a 5/16" fuel injection hose with a shut-off valve coming from the original gas tank.(looks like its located at about the 1/4 fuel level height.)
-I am spinning the idea of putting a cheap low pressure pump inline with this to a custom smaller stainless steel tank that has a liquid level switch to control the pump...leaving the custom tank as a gravity feed to the carb on the generator and venting the tank to a charcoal canister I have.
-The charcoal canister can be "T'd" into the Valve cover vent for the generator to suck the fumes through the air cleaner and into the engine for combustion.
^^^Hmmm...this way I am merely looking at the mounting of the engine and generator with the electrical slightly relocated...no large goofy sized plastic fuel tank to deal with or any of the plastics period. I am also looking at the cooling fan that can be removed from this engine...it seems to me, in principle, that the original engine fan is going to mess with my airflow design for the cabinet. I am planning to funnel two 4 amp/900cfm fans worth of airflow through this cabinet(a suck blow total of 8 amps/1800cfm).
Dan

**********************************************************************-Professor95,TeamSlacker, Wizard...Someone who knows:

*I am planning all my wiring for my new components. After alot of research on here and other places, I am finding conflicting information regarding a few things that I hope you can clarify for me.

My 23' 1977 Dodge MH has two wire a/c outlets through-out it...not the 3-wire todays standard type.
-My new genset, and Go-Power pure sine wave converter have Grounding/Bonding recomendations to chassis ground.(maybe my PD 60amp converter/charger too..I haven't received it yet..)

*I know that this MH uses a completely isolated 12v inverter and used to have a single 12v battery for all the house 12v circuits.(meaning that all positive and ground connections were kept to the system wiring itself for the house only..in other words, no grounds leading to any chassis ground to the MH)
*I know that the MH engine battery and chassis electrical is seperate from the House and uses the chassis as ground for the 12v system.

-Question is..."What do I do with these ground or bonding points on each one of these new pieces of equipment I am adding to my MH.

Is there an update I should be doing to the a/c wiring and outlets to be safer?

HELP!!

[Old___Slow]

Happy 6th Birthday ~ 3000w Chinese Gensets Info' ~ and the grace of Dr. Randy Agee (Professor95) for these 6 years in dealing with some trying days in this vast class room. Some, like Wgeorge11 have kept the lights on during some long nights.

Floyd

[Wgeorge11]

Ah, those were the days my friends.
Many of us are still out here faithfully lurking, reading and marvelling at the endurance of "our" thread and that little yellow champion companion many of us proudly tote around. Mine still runs inspite of being dropped and drug along I-10 in Florida, and again on the Trace in Mississippi. My TT rear carrier bounced itself to death killing $1500 of bikes. BUT luck was with me. Battered, brused and bent, the Champion lives on to light up other nights. So, I have new bikes, a better carrier, and the same old gen set that has seen the Keys, Brownsville, Arizona, Mexico and points between. Life is good.
This thread has been a special place for me these past six years, kept alive by our mentor, the Professor, and Mr Wizard, etal. I could not imagine trying to reread all that has gone before. But then I have had the privilege of living it. Growing old gracefully has its advantages especially if you can run without smoking. HAPPY BIRTHDAY

[jlaustin]

Happy Birthday!

I've learned a lot!

Thanks to the Professor and cast of characters that inspire us, challenge us, and educate us!

Oscar should get an extra dog treat tonight!

Regards,
John