3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[MrWizard]

EPenney wrote:

dogzpaws wrote:
At 85 degrees and just over 7,000', the Champion had no problem running 13,500 BTU AC and MW and coach battery charger and fridge, etc

Just got back from 7 days camping at 6,700'. My FIL's 3500w Champion would not run his 13.5k AC. The genset would trip every time the AC was turned on.

So the questions are:
1) Is the Champion delivering full rated amps from a single plug?

2) Should we suspect the AC unit as causing the problem?

3) Can anyone help me get out of hot water with DW, since I told my FIL to buy the Champion?

Thanks.

i'm betting on the A/C unit being too much load ( what yr is his RV )

also did you help hime out to make sure the water heater and fridge are on propane, the water heater on electric is a heavy power user

if the RV is fairly new, and he mormally goes to places with hookups

chances are evrything is in the automatic mode and using 120 AC when available

those things should be put manualy on propane

[MrWizard]

dash8wrench wrote:
Here's a thought to chew on...

With the low oil shut off most of these units have and some of us considering enclosures, what are your thoughts about using an appropriately rated Klixon temp switch for thermal protection for the generator head in the shut down circuit? Just allow for the switch to be normally open and then closed to ground when in an overtemp situation.

nice idea ( if you can find one )

i know all the ones I see in the surplus catalogs are normally closed and open at temp

seems they all come from coffee makers or other heating devices

[dash8wrench]

Here's a thought to chew on...

With the low oil shut off most of these units have and some of us considering enclosures, what are your thoughts about using an appropriately rated Klixon temp switch for thermal protection for the generator head in the shut down circuit? Just allow for the switch to be normally open and then closed to ground when in an overtemp situation.

[EPenney]

dogzpaws wrote:
At 85 degrees and just over 7,000', the Champion had no problem running 13,500 BTU AC and MW and coach battery charger and fridge, etc

Just got back from 7 days camping at 6,700'. My FIL's 3500w Champion would not run his 13.5k AC. The genset would trip every time the AC was turned on.

So the questions are:
1) Is the Champion delivering full rated amps from a single plug?

2) Should we suspect the AC unit as causing the problem?

3) Can anyone help me get out of hot water with DW, since I told my FIL to buy the Champion?

Thanks.

[professor95]

SL NewbRVer wrote:
Again any chance the lower altitude had a part in micro clock working fine? Just curious as to the science behind my thinking. Thanks in advance all!

Nope - not from the generator end.

[toprudder]

professor95 wrote:
Not trying to get too far off topic, but it is easy to make a tongue scale. You will need to locate a hydraulic bottle jack that has a service port. This will be a screw out plug on the bottom of the jack. .....

Cool! That would be a good way to measure the load on each corner of a MH as well. You would just have to be sure to raise both sides by the same amount (jack stand on one side) to be sure the sway bar does not skew the results.

[hgarraway]

SLCNewbRver,

You might try switching the fridge and/or h2o heater over to propane or off instead of the AC compressor when you run the MW. If the breaker is opening because the current demand is just above the limit it might work. Just a thought but probably too simple of a solution to fix it. Of course if you already run the fridge and h2o heater on propane while boondocking this won't help.

[SLCNewbRver]

dogzpaws wrote:
Got back from drydocking in Big Bear, CA this weekend. At 85 degrees and just over 7,000', the Champion had no problem running 13,500 BTU AC and MW and coach battery charger and fridge, etc.

We returned this weekend from our jetski outing........Thank God we had the champion to run the A/C cause it was 100+. We own a hybrid TT 236 aerolite cub with the two tent ends and had to turtle to keep the temp comfortable, while not on the waverunners.

Clock worked fine on the microwave at that altitude....I guess i should look it up but I don't know what altitude we were at. Yuba resevoir in middle of Utah for all those wanting to look it up. But generator still didn't pwer the MW and A/C together. Did as advised and shut compressor down and worked fine. Wish I could duplicate what some of you lucky guys are doing to run them both together, but I guess really a non issue now for me. 🙂 Again any chance the lower altitude had a part in micro clock working fine? Just curious as to the science behind my thinking. Thanks in advance all!

Sorry for the redundancy but I am just reporting real world scenarios for the champ genny and hope to contribute to the thread.

I looked it up.......elevation 5100 ft.

[professor95]

Based on recent e-mails, a rear mounted carrier on a TT for a generator is of considerable interest to a lot of forum readers. But, such a carrier with the added weight of a generator might be a bad idea if it upsets the balance of a TT. A few days ago I advised weighing the tongue of your trailer to be sure you had at least 10% of your weight up front. Problem is, weighing the tongue is beyond the reach of most TT owners.

Not trying to get too far off topic, but it is easy to make a tongue scale. You will need to locate a hydraulic bottle jack that has a service port. This will be a screw out plug on the bottom of the jack. Unfortunately, jacks at Wal-Mart and Pep Boys (made in China;)) no longer seem to have the service port. So, you may need to search out yard sales or an older friends garage to find a bottle jack with the port. Remove the plug from this port and install a pressure gauge - I selected a liquid filled gauge commonly used on a pressure washer that would measure up to 3,000# (this one came from Northern Tools). In the photo below, the gauge is reading 650 psi. To convert this to weight, measure the diameter of the jack cylinder (mine was 1.5 inches) and apply a little math to get the area of the cylinder (3.14 x radius squared). In my case, I had 1.767 square inches. Multiply the area by the pressure and you get weight. On my jack/scale this equals 1,148# of tongue weight. Maximum loaded vehicle weight for my TT is 11,000# - I do not load to this weight so I am well within the 10% weight on the tongue rule with my rear carrier hauling a generator, fuel, extra battery and all my leveling blocks.

Again, be safe - verify your front weights before adding additional rear weight.

[professor95]

cloudswrest wrote:
One thing I noticed, and it is not shown in the schematic, is the bottom terminal of the top winding (white wire) is wired to chassis ground in the generator (not in the switch panel.) So neutral on the 120V outlets is shorted to chassis GND.

I hope this is not true and you are looking at a wire for the 12 volt winding or the regulator control winding. Have you made some resistance measurments with an ohm meter to be sure? If it is true, it should be disconnected and allowed to float. Only the green or green/yellow wire should be attached to the chassi. Having the white wire (AKA neutral) on the chassi is a dangerous situation.

Also something that IS shown on the schematic is the "neutral" contact of the 240V twistlock connector is left unconnected. I found this a minor irritation.

I have seen this on 3 prong twist lock outlets (JD built ELM 3000 for example), but not on 4 prong L14-20 or L14-30 outlets. Maybe one of the assemblers goofed and put the white wire that should attach the 220 center tap to the outlet onto the chassi? Wild guess on my part. Anyway, the neutral is not needed on "straight" 220, only when you use an appliance like a stove or dryer that has both 110 and 220 elements. It does come in handy when pulling a 110 leg from the twistlock outlet. In fact, without the neutral leg, you cannot get 110 out of the twist lock outlet - unless some dummy runs the neutral to the chassi ground along with the grounding conductor :E

[cloudswrest]

I just bought the Cosco "PowerWise" 3KW genset which schematic was posted by Alohatraveler on 05/02/06 09:21pm. So far it's working great! It has two independent windings as commented upon by Professor95 that are switch configured by a 4PDT (actually "3T" as it has a middle all off position) switch. I did some minor dissection of the wiring for inspection (pulled the outlet panel and pulled the generator back cover.)

One thing I noticed, and it is not shown in the schematic, is the bottom terminal of the top winding (white wire) is wired to chassis ground in the generator (not in the switch panel.) So neutral on the 120V outlets is shorted to chassis GND.

Also something that IS shown on the schematic is the "neutral" contact of the 240V twistlock connector is left unconnected. I found this a minor irritation.

One BIG irritation is I've not been able to find any real documentation of this product on the web. Not even a manual. And even though I bought it at Costco it is not listed on their web site. Even the PowerWise web site listed in the paper manual from the box has no information on this product!

Cloudswrest

[professor95]

VDOCAD wrote:
The choke needs to be turned as well meaning you have to get out every time you want to turn it on. In such case there isn't much difference with a recoil start generator, or is there?

12 volt door lock solenoids are available at most "U-Pull-It" junk yards for a couple of bucks. A homebrewed mounting bracket and a push button should give you a remote control for the choke. I know it will work, I did it on an old outboard motor for a friend recently.

[professor95]

Walrus127 wrote:
Hey Professor,

I really like the picture of your setup. My question is do you get much sound or vibration transfer with the generator running on the platform on the back of the TT? I have been thinking about this and my TT has the fresh water tank in the very front so this would off set the weight on the rear.

Sound and vibration transfer are not an issue. I retained the stock rubber feet on the generator. It is bolted to the platform, but the bolts are not fully tightened (nylon lock nuts used). This allows for movement on the rubber isolation feet and negated vibration transfer to the platform. I also believe that since the floor on the platform is made of composite decking meterial manufactured from old plastic milk jugs and wood fibers rather than steel also helps reduce vibration. Inside the camper with the AC on (even in the rear bedroom next to the unit) you cannot hear or feel the thing running. Honest, I am not joking!

[zztinker]

Thanks for the reply on the weight balance of my trailer putting a generator on the TT bumper. I think I'll just keep it in the back of my truck and keep it simple. I did start up my new Champion 4000/3500 generator today. Its 109 deg. here but had no trouble running the A/C. I think it's a little noisy, but not too bad. I had it running in the doorway of the garage and probably got some reflective sounds. Started on the 3rd pull, forgot to turn switch on the first time.....

[Mr__Tommy]

Yep, we're back from a weekend of 'boondocking' and our first go-around with our brandy-new Champion RV ready 3500w genny. For ten years I've wanted a generator for those 100+ degree days but just couldn't justify the mega-bucks for a fine Honda unit. The $299 price tag on our Champion was just too sweet to pass up. I am SO happy with this unit I can't stand it. I told a friend about this and he ran out and bought one too. We went dry camping together this past weekend and in the over 100 degree heat, we fired them up for the afternoon and enjoyed air conditioned comfort. Our wives think we're hero's!

From inside, our air conditioners made more noise than the generators so we didn't even know they were out there. And from outside (camping in an area with lots of tall sage brush and many trees), the sound was almost negligible from a distance. Died in the wool tenters down the way may have been a bit miffed, but I paid my dues tenting, loved it, and moved on (once I was over 50 - ha). We invited a couple in for cold beers - and cool air. They loved it...

So, all in all, I'm SO glad I decided to take a chance on the Champion I can hardly contain my exuberance! After reading the zillions of pages of discussion on this site, how could I NOT get one???;)