3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[VDOCAD]

I posted 20 or 30 pages back regarding "electric start" portable generators and apparently they do not work as simple as the stock RV generators where you just press a button inside the coach and it comes on. The choke needs to be turned as well meaning you have to get out every time you want to turn it on. In such case there isn't much difference with a recoil start generator, or is there?

[Walrus127]

Hey Professor,

I really like the picture of your setup. My question is do you get much sound or vibration transfer with the generator running on the platform on the back of the TT? I have been thinking about this and my TT has the fresh water tank in the very front so this would off set the weight on the rear.

[MrWizard]

WaltinColo wrote:
Sooo... does this 3500 electric start Duro have an econo switch?
I see "Idle Control Saves Fuel "
Is this an econo button?
Cause the Champion doesnt have one of those, and that would be a deff advantage...

Walt

I don't know what they mean by that phrase

because, so far 'enco' control is only ON inverter gnerators

where motor speed has nothing to do with the 60hz AC wave

and the motor can be allowed to idle at a slower speed when NO power is needed

maybe it has something to do with metering the fuel to the carb, in a no load situation

but honestly, do any of us let the generator sit around 'idling'

we are using it or it's turned off


OFF topic

even the honda ui people don't leave it running in idle at ecno just to show off how quiet it is and pretend they are using it

and a honda ui running an A/C unit can hit 4000 RPM, thats 400 RPM (8%) faster than my champion

at that point they are NOT so quiet anymore, quieter than my champion maybe, but not enough to be worth the difference in price to me

[dogzpaws]

Got back from drydocking in Big Bear, CA this weekend. At 85 degrees and just over 7,000', the Champion had no problem running 13,500 BTU AC and MW and coach battery charger and fridge, etc. Pretty impressive. The unit is a little louder than I'd hoped for, especially if you are hanging around a bunch of tenters. We only used it to recharge the batteries and cool off the coach for about an hour or so in the middle of the day. Nice to have all that power for only $300. Still working on sound abatement.

[professor95]

electric start..
great info on here thanks to all who put it on here...
i have a powerpro 3500 with manual start....is there anyone on here who convert one of these to electric start ???..
gen works great run a/c --tv-mic and it handles these gud..
tring to put it in storage box on truck so electric start sure wud be nice...
gud luck to all
prospecter

I had a chance to look at one electric start model in the family of generators we are focusing on.

The engine had a different flywheel - one with teeth that would engage the starter gear. The engine shroud was cut out and had a piece over the starter. "If" one had the correct flywheel and the starter mootor, conversion would not be difficult.

Guys, once again, these alternators are NOT inverter types. In order to provide 60 HZ the engine must run at 3,600 RPM all the time. If we "throttle back" the engine speed to simulate an econo mode, the frequency will drop like a rock and, due to the design of the rotor and stator fields, voltage will also decrease.

There is no econo mode on these gennys.

Back to electric start - and I hope I am not letting the cat out of the bag here. The company that builds the little yellow generators has a new model that they are projecting for release next year (according to info given to me by a reliable company rep.). It will be an RV ready model, it will offer electric start, have a sound rating of 62 dB (5 lower than current models) and have an option (extra cost?) to run off of gasoline or propane. I...

[WaltinColo]

Sooo... does this 3500 electric start Duro have an econo switch?
I see "Idle Control Saves Fuel "
Is this an econo button?
Cause the Champion doesnt have one of those, and that would be a deff advantage...

Walt

[prospecter]

electric start..
great info on here thanks to all who put it on here...
i have a powerpro 3500 with manual start....is there anyone on here who convert one of these to electric start ???..
gen works great run a/c --tv-mic and it handles these gud..
tring to put it in storage box on truck so electric start sure wud be nice:)...
gud luck to all
prospecter

[professor95]

zztinker wrote:
I was wondering if I could have it mounted on the rear bumper without changing the balance of the trailer. The trailer GVW is about 5500#. My TV is a Tundra V/8 with a WD hitch with one stabilizer. At present my TT pulls great and I wouldn’t want to mess things up.

There are so many variables, it is impossible to give you a yes or no answer. As Mr Wizard said, 100# should not upset the apple cart. But, from my experience, adding the weight of the carrier and a full tank of fuel will bring this closer to 200#.

Where are your holding tanks and fresh water tank located in relation to the axle? If they are forward of the axle you are potentially in a better situation since adding some water when you tow would create a counter weight. If they are behind the axles, you should be fine "if" you pull with empty tanks. Of course, they could also be directly over the axles, which is considered a neutral position. Your front mounted propane tanks and battery(s) can also change the trailer ballance. Adding a second battery puts another 35 - 50# up front to counter additional weight on the rear. Full propane tanks add another 60# up front to counter balance. But what happens when the tanks are low or empty?

You need to look at the whole picture - water tanks, holding tanks, cargo locations, max GVWR, etc. If at all possible you need to weigh your tongue at a minimum - preferably the entire trailer.


Again, I doubt that you would create a problem - there is generally considerable latitude for adding some weight to the front or back of a TT. As you can see, I carry my Champion on a home built rear carrier, along with some other gear. But, my tongue weights were excessive to begin with and this extra rear weight actually improves the balance on my TT. My fresh water tank, grey water tank and galley tanks are all forward of the axles (the black water is centered). But, there is considerable cargo area under the bed in the rear and I have two large storage compartments aft of the axles. What I carry (or do not carry) in those compartments is important when adding weight to the back bumper of the trailer. I have made weight measurments - you need to do the same. I know I am still well within my balance ratio with the set-up I have.

[toprudder]

SLCNewbRver wrote:
And as wizard stated am i really losing that much efficiency on the genny? 5-10 % for every 1000 ft? That means that if I am at 8000 ft my genny is only running at 60% capacity cause I lost 40% at the low end of the example above? Wow that is good to know.

At 8000ft you should still have about 75% power from the engine. Of course, this is also affected by the air temperature and humidity as well. (Density Altitude)

[MrWizard]

at 100 lbs, I don't thing the gnerator would effect the trailer towing,

I would take a close look at how high the bumper is and wheter you might drag the generator carrier on a driveway someplace

depending on the bumper to ground clearance you may want to ellivate the genny rack

[zztinker]

My wife and I are new to the TT thing (Pioneer 180CK) and have enjoyed our first outing to Pismo beach Ca. last week. We had full hook ups. We’re thinking of camping in State parks etc. I have read all the reviews on the Champion #46540 generator and have decided to purchase one tomorrow at Kragen auto supply. ($329.00) Now, I was wondering if I could have it mounted on the rear bumper without changing the balance of the trailer. The trailer GVW is about 5500#. My TV is a Tundra V/8 with a WD hitch with one stabilizer. At present my TT pulls great and I wouldn’t want to mess things up.

[professor95]

deshemar wrote:
Could use some input on this idea but also had a question if the Duro Power is OK or should I go for the champion - see lots of info on the champion but not much on the Duro Power

The DuroPower is a nice little unit. It is almost identical to the ELM3000 I purchased in March of 2005 when this thread began. Both the DuroPower and original ELM3000 are built by a large Chinese plant named JiangDong.

The major mechanical differences betwen the Champion and JD units are in the way the voltage is regulated and the amount of distortion that appears on the output sine wave. The Champion uses a very well designed solid state voltage regulator with a sense winding. The JD units use a simple AC capacitor. Voltage is much more stable with the Champion AVR and the distortion on the output is somewhere in the range of 4% - pretty low for this class of generator. The Champion does use slip rings and a brush set rather than a brushless design. Initially, I saw this as a negative but now that I have been able to disect and examine both units I believe the brushes will outlast most of the other components.

Another thing to consider is your warranty and after the sale support. JD makes generators for perhaps a hundred or more distributors who sell them under their label (like DuroPower). Champion owns their own manufacturing facility and makes only their own label. Their warrranty and service/parts department are currently very responsive to customer needs and have impressed many on this forum.

If it sounds like I am advertising for Champion - I am not. At least not any more than I would advertise for products from GM, Fleetwood, Camco, Acar, Dometic or a slew of others that I have been blessed to receive good service, support and some value for my dollar from. I think one of the things that these forums do that makes them valuable is allowing contributors to honestly express their experiences with products and problems relevant to our life style.

[MrWizard]

well it's very similar looking,

but the Rv READY is rated for 500 more watts, and we know it has a good electronic voltage regulator for clean power

maybe somebody else has more knowledge or experience

[deshemar]

MrWizard wrote:
I haven't seen the dou power, do you have a link to a web page

http://www.duropower.com/index.asp?FID=2&level=1
The 3500 Electric start is the same $ as the champion. however I think shipping between the two will make them about a wash on price consideration - or at least close.

[MrWizard]

I haven't seen the dou power, do you have a link to a web page