3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[bob_b1]

Tom:

About the twistlock: I am assuming the you created a dogbone connector using a female 30-amp plug and wired it to the twistlock? Let me attempt to clarify the wiring to this twistlock.

Looking at the twistlock outlet on the control panel, The L-shaped ground is at the 6-o’clock position, Your 30-amp green ground wire should correspond to this via the twistlock plug.

Looking at the twistlock outlet on the control panel, The negative is at the 12-o’clock position, Your 30-amp white negative wire should correspond to this via the twistlock plug.

Looking at the twistlock outlet on the control panel, The positive is at the 3-o’clock position, Your 30-amp black positive wire should correspond to this via the twistlock plug.

Due to rewire, the 9-o’clock position on the twistlock outlet is not used.

Here is another thing that you can try. Attach the 30-amp cord to a 30-amp to 15-amp adapter. Plug this adapter into the standard outlet and try out your readings. If all is well, then correct the wiring with your twistlock dogbone connector.

Also: Read this thread about Honda EU 3000 receptacles not testing properly I ground my generator with a large copper wire rod. Most people do not. No rod = no ground.

[kneisl1]

Whats the amp rating of the breaker on a PowerPro 3500 geneerator? Thanks!

[tom_scott]

Need help. After rewiring my pp3500,using the Wyatts-S method.
I moved the panel (red) to the (blue) terminal at generator head.
I then made the jumper from the (red) terminal to (brown) terminal.
My problem is,the yellow tester shows one light (open ground) at the
120v receptacle at generator panel.

I made up twist-lock dog bone, plugged in tt, went inside to test, (one red & one yellow) hot/neu. reverse.

Dog bone twist-lock looking at ground,(green wire) going to the right next prone(black wire), next prone (white wire). On the twist-lock the green goes to (yellow/green tracer), black goes to (brown), and white goes to (red)on the 220v receptacle twist-lock. Where did I go wrong? Any help would be appreciated

[mike_65]

Ah, a simple but effective design. I guess more often than not the simplicity is baffling. I'll take a look as soon as I get home. Thanks,
Mike

[professor95]

The motor seems to be running at a slower speed with or without load. When I plug a test device (wall plug tester w/ three lights) into the socket, it only lights when I manually increase the throttle. Could the idle screw have backed off due to vibration? Should the generator produce power at a lower run speed?

Virtually all of these generators are designed to spin the rotor at 3,600 RPM. This translates to 60 RPS (revolutions per second), which is the frequency of the alternating current sine wave used in the USA.

In addition to frequency, the speed of the rotor in the stator field is incident to the voltage created.

If the engine is running slower than 3,600 RPM, you will not produce the voltage and current necessary to power most 110 volt devices.

The gasoline engines that power these generators often have a mechanical governor system that uses air pressure created by the flywheel to move a flap or wing against a spring. If engine speed drops, counter forces on the spring to the throttle are reduced and the spring pulls the throttle further open to increase engine speed. If the engine overspeeds, the opposite holds true. I believe the engine on your Nikota uses an internal centrifugal counter weight to achieve the same function. The faster the counter weight spins, the more force it exerts and the harder it pulls back on the engine throttle. (clear as mud?)

While primitive, this method is effective in regulating engine speed. A newer and more reliable method uses an electronic stepper assembly.

The speed governor and/or throttle spring assembly on your Nikota engine are most likely broken, have vibrated loose or are missing parts. Most any small engine (lawnmower) repair shop worth its salt should be able to fix this since the engine is based on the Honda GX series. In fact, Honda GX parts should be interchangeable.

Nikota is out of business. You may have a problem getting a warranty exchange since the only Nikota products currently in the pipeline seem to be left over inventory.

[mike_65]

I am a new subscriber to the site and I must say I am impressed with the patience and collaborative efforts here. I have been looking around for a generator for quit some time, Hurricane Rita pushed me to make a purchase rather quickly. With this being said, I would like to see if anyone has had a similar problem with their generators. I have a Nokita 3500w, purchased from PeP Boys that ran great for 48 hours then stopped producing power. The motor seems to be running at a slower speed with or without load. When I plug a test device (wall plug tester w/ three lights) into the socket, it only lights when I manually increase the throttle. Could the idle screw have backed off due to vibration? Should the generator produce power at a lower run speed? I may just take it back to see if I can get a replacement but would like to forgo the effort if it's something simple.....gas is not cheap these days!! Any info or assistance would be greatly appreciated.

[kneisl1]

Ive been thinking about modifying my Power Pro 2200 to produce 15 amps (1800 watts) in 120v. The circuit appears to be identical to the PowerPro 3500. But I keep coming up with reasons for not doing it. One problem is the circuit breaker is 10 amps. Now, theoretically, there are two power circuits a 120, and a 240v. I realize you can plug in a modifyed four prong plug into the 240v outlet and get 120v while also plugging a 120 volt applicance into the 120v socket. But you cant draw more than 10 amps from the circuit because of the circuit breaker. The generator is capable of producing two 7.5 amp circuits of 7.5 amps each. So why is there a 10 amp breaker? Is there something about the generators construction which limits it to making 7.5 amps reliably? Im concerned that if you modify the circuit to make the 15 amps the windings of the generator is capable of, youll be overstressing things that were not meant to take that amperage.

[bob_b1]

Kamphiker wrote:

Excellent and easy to follow directions .

I just finished doing this mod on my PP3500 following bob b instructions.


Nice and easy mod following bob b instructions thats for sure.

Thanks for the write up!

I'm glad that it was easy to follow. I write test scripts for a living. My scripts are nothing more than detailed procedures on how to operate a complicated portion of a computer application. Knowlege of the application cannot be 'assumed' when writing a script. You have to spell it all out.

To anyone else: If any step is unclear, please forward your comments to me and I'll do an edit.

Bob

[professor95]

The only question I have left is can I use both outlets at the same time & if so is the wattage split between them ? For example should I use the ac on one outlet and maybe the fridge on the other or does it even matter and just use one outlet with a power strip?

Whatever floats your boat...... Treat the two outlets after the conversion the same way you would any circuit in your house that has multiple outlets and is wired to a single breaker.

[allstar59]

Man, this thread keeps getting better by the minute !!! Thank you for the step by step instructions that even I can follow. I can't wait to do this tomorrow. The only question I have left is can I use both outlets at the same time & if so is the wattage split between them ? For example should I use the ac on one outlet and maybe the fridge on the other or does it even matter and just use one outlet with a power strip?

[Kamphiker]

bob_b wrote:

kneisl1 wrote:
its been mentioned that the 3500 has screw terminals on the sockets etc whereas the 2200 does not.

The 3500 rewire only requires an 8mm socket to complete the whole job.

Step 1: Remove the two 8mm bolts on the generator head cover.

Step 2: Identify the terminal block. It has four 8mm screws that have eight wires plugged into it. Two wires per terminal.

Step 3: Identify where the wires from front panel are coming from. You will notice that they come through a rubber grommet on the 12 O'clock position on the opening. Four of the those wires lead to the top side screw terminal block.

Step 4: Identify the four wires coming from the generator head. They come up from the bottom the thermal block.

Step 5: Unscrew the 8mm screw from the red wires. You will not be using this terminal anymore. Remove both red wires.

Step 6: Remove the 8mm screw from the blue wires. Leave the blue wires on the bolt. Take the top red wire (from the panel) and attach it the terminal that the two blue wires are using. Reattach the 8mm screw. This terminal now has two blue wires and one red wire (from the panel).

Step 7: Remove the 8mm screw from the brown wires. Leave the brown wires on the bolt. Take the bottom red wire (from the generator head) and attach it the terminal that the two brown wires are using. Reattach the 8mm screw. This terminal now has two brown wires and one red wire (from the generator head).

Step 8: Reattach the two 8mm bolts on the generator head cover.

Step 9: Start generator and confirm that the panel meter now reads 120V instead of 240V. Using a multimeter. Make sure that the standard plug is reading the correct 120V and is using the correct polarity. The twistlock connector has the L-shaped terminal at the 6 o'clock position, it has the positive at the 3 o'clock position and the neutral at the 12 o'clock position. The 9 o'clock position is no longer used. Make sure that there is 120V between the 12 o'clock position (-) and the 3 o'clock position (+). Again, make sure that the polarity is correct. Check the voltage and polarity once again after you hook up your 30-amp to twistlock adapter make sure that everything is correct from the 30-amp side. This is not as complicated as it sounds.

Hope this review helps.

Excellent and easy to follow directions .

I just finished doing this mod on my PP3500 following bob b instructions.

I can tell a difference in the performance. After doing this Mod I connected the PP3500 to my trailer and started up, First I turned on the power inverter / charger in the trailer and flipped on all the lights, then I started the 5 c.f. Dometic refer on elec., next I turned on the 13,500 btu A/C. I then measured the voltage inside the trailer at 118.3 volts. I then added a 250 watt haolgen spot light on the 20 amp adapter I made to plug into the 4 prong recepticle on the PP3500, Voltage measurement inside the trailer now was 116.6 volts.

Nice and easy mod following bob b instructions thats for sure.

Thanks for the write up!

[professor95]

With the conversion its now capable of supplying 15 amps at 1800 watts. Will the wiring on the panel be up to this? What about the wingings of the generator itself? Are they thick enough to produce this increased amperage?

The current in the individual coils will not change. Thus, they should be just as adequate as they were before the conversion.

As for the wiring that feeds the duplex outlet, I would agree it would be a good idea to upgrade the gauge. But, keep in mind that with such short lengths the danger of overheating due to increased resistance and voltage drop are minimal at the current levels we are using. I would also hope that the wire gauge that is present is no smaller than an 18 AWG, which can easily handle as much as 30 amps for a distance of one foot (like a fuseable link in your car). I would be more concerned about the surface area of the contact points or connections, which often become an additional resistance.

[bob_b1]

kneisl1 wrote:
Will the wiring on the panel be up to this? What about the wingings of the generator itself? Are they thick enough to produce this increased amperage?

Read my post from one page back. I don't think that wires are up to that task. You would benefit from thicker wires. I wouldn't know anything about connecting the wires the way that you are suggesting. For $100 more, I'd get the 3500 and be done with it.:W

[rwjejits]

Professor95 & Others - good news. Instead of the 1-800 number this time, I called both of Homier's sale locations posted on their web site. 1st one was firm on the $299 price, but second one said they would honor the $199. So to wrap up, I have a 3000w (4000w surge) on the way to my door for $257...not bad! Hope this thing survives the trip and works like others metioned here.

Thanks to all...

[kneisl1]

You know Ive been thinking about these generator conversions. Basically you are doubling the amperage going through the wiring. In the case of the PowerPro 2200, in its origional form the most acircuit can produce is 7.5 amps (at 1800 watts) whether its 120v or 240v. With the conversion its now capable of supplying 15 amps at 1800 watts. Will the wiring on the panel be up to this? What about the wingings of the generator itself? Are they thick enough to produce this increased amperage?
Since I had the red generator cover off I noticed the windings from the coils go into a four prong connector which then connects to the wiring going to the panel. Am I correct in assuming you could connect the white and blue wires together, and connect the red and brown wires together thus making the parallel connection of the coils? You could then run single wires from each connection to the panel. Then youd have to rewire the panel which you could do using heavier wire if necessary. Of course, the gauge of the coils in the generator remains the same. Would anyone care to comment whether or not they will be up to the doubling of current at 120v?