3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[pritch272]

Now that's a good idea.

Now all you need is a cover for it when it's not in use.

[jasult]

Now that our RV season is closed, I decided on rigging up my fifth wheel rails to hold the Champion 3500 in a secure mode as I use it all year in my construction. Here is how I secure it with home made bracket

[professor95]

tvman44 wrote:
I got a sale flyer from Camping World today and they have a Champion 3500/4000 watt ginny on sale for $250.00. Not bad if you live close enough to go pick one up, I would hate to see their freight charge to ship one.

I knew Camping World was on the list for new vendors of CPE generators, but did not know they were there until your post. I went to the CW Web-Site, and sure enough, it was there.

But, as I navigated deeper I discovered that the generator was "direct shipped from the manufacturer" if you catalog order. But a search of stores shows it as "Hot Item - Limited Quantities" so it must also be available in-store too. Shipping via catalog is $80 - ouch!

There is an additional 2-year protection plan offered for $99 that is full replacement or repair after the CPE warranty expires (one year)at Camping World locations. That makes it sound like no return shipping for warranty work will be required. :h Now, that would be a great benefit! :C

[tvman44]

I got a sale flyer from Camping World today and they have a Champion 3500/4000 watt ginny on sale for $250.00. Not bad if you live close enough to go pick one up, I would hate to see their freight charge to ship one.

[jlaustin]

professor95 wrote:
John,

Very nicely done! I do like the idea of being able to use the electric hoist in the manner you elected, but I am curious as to why you did not use the jack and/or a winch as I did? Was it because the electric winch was there and ...... well, electric? Or, did you feel that by extending the boom you needed a higher fulcrum for support?

On the case of the crane popping off of the support when the boom is lowered.... I guess you know this is a result of the fulcrum (electric winch) being high on the boom. With the fulcrum back at the jack point, this would not happen.

A suggestion to help keep the crane base in place would be a brace that extends from the post next to the crane out over the top. This could be a steel "L" bracket type extension or even something similar to your wooden base extension - possibly screwed to the inside edges of the pole and coming out to cap the crane. ...

I went with the electric winch because:
(a) I already had it!
(b) It's very convenient to climb up into the pickup bed, pull the pins that secure the hitch, just reach over and grab the corded remote and lift away! It's not unusual for the hitch to bind as it is lifted and it's very convenient to be able to regulate the lifting from the pickup bed - I sometimes take a pry bar and "pop" up one corner if it binds a bit. I'm lazy - I like this much better than climbing in and out of the pickup to pump the manual hydraulic cylinder!
(c) I realized I would have to mount the base up off the floor so that it would clear the side rail of my pickup (my F250 has 4WD and 20" wheels, so its very tall!). I also knew I was going to have to extend the boom (it's only 53" originally) to 72" or more to reach the center of the pickup's bed. I was concerned that all that leverage/fulcrum on an elevated base might give me stability problems. By attaching the hoist, the hoist is taking the vast majority of the weight and now the boom is no longer in flexion, but in compression, i.e. it's just propping the hoist and it's load out there. Now, the forces are pushing down on the base and it's amenable to side-bracing as I did - it's extremely stable!
(d) I mounted the winch so far out because the existing winch brackets would not fit the boom, but they do fit my extension.

I really like your idea of the "L" bracket as a safety from the base popping up! That will eliminate having to unpin a restrictor or having to pin the crane when the boom is below horizontal. In fact, I think I also might drill a hole in the center of the top cap of the crane and run a short axle down from the "L" bracket thru the hole. This would give further stability in the event I overloaded the crane and the mounting base began to lean - the axle would prevent the top cap from moving horizontally and stabilize it further.

Regards,

John

[professor95]

John,

Very nicely done! I do like the idea of being able to use the electric hoist in the manner you elected, but I am curious as to why you did not use the jack and/or a winch as I did? Was it because the electric winch was there and ...... well, electric? Or, did you feel that by extending the boom you needed a higher fulcrum for support?

On the case of the crane popping off of the support when the boom is lowered.... I guess you know this is a result of the fulcrum (electric winch) being high on the boom. With the fulcrum back at the jack point, this would not happen.

A suggestion to help keep the crane base in place would be a brace that extends from the post next to the crane out over the top. This could be a steel "L" bracket type extension or even something similar to your wooden base extension - possibly screwed to the inside edges of the pole and coming out to cap the crane.



In any event, an extremely well thought out and versatile way to load/unload and swing out of the way hitches, generators, batteries or whatever you need to load for camping.

Good Shew - old man!

[jlaustin]

Hitch/Generator Crane

Recent discussion about using pickup cranes to lift gennies, etc., inspired me to build a crane mounted in my RV barn to lift my hitch off the pickup. I was really inspired when HF put the crane on sale for $69.95! :B It could just as well be used to lift a genset in/out of pickup or off the back of a RV.

I already had a Harbor Freight electric hoist that I was using for the same purpose, but it was slung from a chain in my hangar and I had to unhitch, drive over to the hangar, lift off the hitch and store it. This new setup utilizes the electric hoist for convenience and allows me to unhitch, pull forward a few feet, pluck the hitch out, and then store the hitch right there with the FW!

I built a 24' x 40' RV barn and put a 16' x 40' shed extension on the right side for farm equipment storage. The barn has 12'w x 14'h rollup doors on both ends so I can just pull-through with the FW. I put concrete approach ramps on both ends to avoid mud and traction problems. I also put entry/exit doors on both ends for convenience:


The crane pivots to the center of the door opening:


After unhitching, I can just pull forward and pluck the hitch out of the bed. Right now I use a steel cable "bridle" to sling the hitch from:


Once the hitch is elevated a few inches, I pull the pickup away and can then swing the crane around to park the hitch. I need to elevate the crane a foot or two higher to clear the corner of the FW as I swing it:


I temporarily have the hitch on a scaffold ladder, but the crane is bearing most of the weight. I plan to build a substantial rack or shelf at about that same height so I can just swing the crane around, lower the hitch a few inches onto the shelf, and leave it there until I need to put it back in the truck:


Here are close-ups of the ends of the crane and how I mounted it:



BIG CAUTION: This crane is just mounted on a steel post as a slip-fitting - if it is not pinned (you have to unpin it to rotate it!), it can simply be pulled up and off the support post. That means that if you lower the crane below horizontal, the forces can pop the crane up off the support post! (Don't ask how I know!:S) Therefore, I intend to put a sliding sleeve that will mount where the hydraulic cylinder goes to prevent unintentional lowering below horizontal. If you wanted to lower it further, one would have to remove this (I'll use pins) and put a pin through the rotating column to prevent it from slipping up. Once it's above the horizontal, you could unpin it and rotate it. (That would be a likely scenario in lifting a gennie off the floor - of course you could avoid that by using a longer hook and chain on the crane.)

Thought I'd post this in this thread as it would give some ideas for genset lifting. However, as always, proceed at your own risk!

Regards,
John

[5akman]

All good suggestions. I'll try the light on an extension cord to see if its a particular motion that causes it to turn off. The low oil sender could certainly be the issue I guess when powering around a long turn at speed like an onramp/offramp cloverleaf.

[jasult]

try unplugging the low oil sensor wire next trip

[toprudder]

5akman wrote:
Why does my Champion 3500 quit running while under way?

I use my Champ to run a small freezer in the back of my pickup on the way to the farmers market. The drive is 6hrs round trip, no canopy over the bed, oil and gas topped off before each trip. I have to stop anywhere from 1-3 times each direction to restart the generator. why is this happening? I've thought of fuel slosh, oil slosh/low oil shutoff but it doesn't seem to be either of those. Any ideas?

Lance

Are you able to tell exactly when it quits running? If you are able to associate the quitting to the motions of the truck (turning left, stopping, bump in the road, etc) then that might help to determine why it is quitting.

If you can't presently tell when it quits, try running an extension cord into the cab with a light plugged into it.

[SonicLogic]

There is a lot of air turbulence in the bed of a pickup truck at speed. It’s possible that at certain speeds, air rushing over the vented gas cap of the generator can cause a vacuum that will interfere with the normal flow of gas to the carburetor. I’ve seen winds from strong storms cause small generators to stop.

[5akman]

Why does my Champion 3500 quit running while under way?

I use my Champ to run a small freezer in the back of my pickup on the way to the farmers market. The drive is 6hrs round trip, no canopy over the bed, oil and gas topped off before each trip. I have to stop anywhere from 1-3 times each direction to restart the generator. why is this happening? I've thought of fuel slosh, oil slosh/low oil shutoff but it doesn't seem to be either of those. Any ideas?

Lance

[bill_h]

byates wrote:

bill h wrote:
With regard to where gasoline comes from, I see a lot of unmarked tanker trucks unloading into the tanks of major brand stations. Someday, I will follow one just for fun.

Some years ago, major oil companies substantially reduced their fleet of company owned tank trucks, realizing it was more economical to hire independent carriers to transport the product to their stations. Matter of economics.

Yeah, that makes sense, but I always wonder what is inside an unmarked gas tanker. I have a neighbors who works at the refinery. I'll see if I can get some inside poop.

[byates]

bill h wrote:
With regard to where gasoline comes from, I see a lot of unmarked tanker trucks unloading into the tanks of major brand stations. Someday, I will follow one just for fun.

Some years ago, major oil companies substantially reduced their fleet of company owned tank trucks, realizing it was more economical to hire independent carriers to transport the product to their stations. Matter of economics.

[bill_h]

With regard to where gasoline comes from, I see a lot of unmarked tanker trucks unloading into the tanks of major brand stations. Someday, I will follow one just for fun.