3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[ol_Bombero-JC]

~

"bill_h"

Sent you a couple of So.CA. M/C related PMs - to save the (my) off-topic hi-jacks.

~

JC

[gasser9]

byates wrote:

professor95 wrote:


Gas at Mom & Pop or discount outlets will vary according to where you live. In my town gas for Kroger comes straight from the Shell Oil tanker terminal. Of course, it could come from elsewhere next year if another company turns in a lower bid. I do NOT buy discount gas away from home because I do not know where it comes from. B


SNIP


A fuel terminal can supply gasoline to any number of retailers in a given area, whether the retailers are Shell, Chevron, Exxon, “Mom and Pop”, Kroger, etc. What distinguishes one brand of gasoline from another occurs when the additive package of each brand is splash blended in the delivery tank truck after the bulk product is loaded. The additives of each brand are actually blended in the truck as it makes its way to the delivery destination. Mom and Pop or Kroger will not receive the same blended product that a Shell or Chevron retailer receives, regardless of its supply terminal operator.



Independent "branded" stations (non oil co. owned) usually buy where they can buy THAT load the cheapest whatever brand that might be evrythinf from Koch to Cenex with their additive package injected at the terminal. Most buy enough to cover their credit cards from their brand sign they display, others with multiple locations with various signs are pretty much open to wholesale price.
Wally & sams are almost exclusively Murphy Oil Co based out of Arkansas, who does not buy any imported oil buy the way.
Dennis

[Old___Slow]

Old farts club:

Old fart/old scars, from my friends Cushman going down a gravel hill out of control and me cuz horse leaving me in a tree. Some from my young bush days in Alaska. Want more:D

O&S
Floyd

[toprudder]

Skibane wrote:
Contain enough denatured ethanol such that the actual ethanol content is no less than 8.0 and no more than 10.0 volume percent.

"Denatured" usually means that 10% methanol is added to the ethanol to make it undrinkable. Is that the case here?

[bill_h]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:
For "bill h" -
I grew up in the "shadow" of UCLA - and remember when one of the first Vespa shops opened up on Westwood Blvd.

Was that Westwood Scooters? I seem to remember a Possman's Scooter shop on Pico that sold Vespas. Very near to Jack Baldwin's.

Of course even before those days kids rode Cushmans, Whizzers, Powells, etc.

I had a Whizzer, but my paper route money barely kept me in belts.

By the early/mid 60's - most of us had "graduated" to more serious "rides". I had my share of experiences with various Limey M/Cs and still have a (650cc) '66 Triumph TR6C and a (500cc-single) TR5MX. Wish I had kept my: Eddie Mulder / Burbank Triumph (Ekins) '64 "Desert Sled" - and '65 TT120 (TT Special).

Of course everyone had lots of friends with various 2-strokes of all sorts - which had affectionate names such as Seize Eazy (CZ) and Griefs (Greeves).
We used to run fouled Bultaco plugs in one cylinder of our Triumphs to clean 'em up, LOL.

So my experiences with two strokes were pretty "straight forward" until . . . . .

An off road week-long F/F "fun" trip (desert/dirt about 1970) at the CO River.
One of the guys who was *not* really into M/Cs had picked up a old Puch for an excellent price (read: very cheap) just for that event.
IIRC is was "about" a 250 cc.

It became fondly known by a new name - "Push" - as he spent a lot of time doing that, whether it was running or not. (running on flat ground was "acceptable", but even minor hills were another story).
Wish I had known of your "secret ingredients" - they would have improved on our "stand-by" and "fixit" time - but might have cut down on a lot of laughs.

That might have been a bad one. The 250 was a pretty decent bike in general.

Sorry for the "hi-jack", couldn't resist.

~

JC

Always fun to talk old bikes. 🙂

[ol_Bombero-JC]

For "bill h" -
I grew up in the "shadow" of UCLA - and remember when one of the first Vespa shops opened up on Westwood Blvd. (It's a what?)

Of course even before those days kids rode Cushmans, Whizzers, Powells, etc.

By the early/mid 60's - most of us had "graduated" to more serious "rides". I had my share of experiences with various Limey M/Cs and still have a (650cc) '66 Triumph TR6C and a (500cc-single) TR5MX. Wish I had kept my: Eddie Mulder / Burbank Triumph (Ekins) '64 "Desert Sled" - and '65 TT120 (TT Special).

Of course everyone had lots of friends with various 2-strokes of all sorts - which had affectionate names such as Seize Eazy (CZ) and Griefs (Greeves).
We used to run fouled Bultaco plugs in one cylinder of our Triumphs to clean 'em up, LOL.

So my experiences with two strokes were pretty "straight forward" until . . . . .

An off road week-long F/F "fun" trip (desert/dirt about 1970) at the CO River.
One of the guys who was *not* really into M/Cs had picked up a old Puch for an excellent price (read: very cheap) just for that event.
IIRC is was "about" a 250 cc.

It became fondly known by a new name - "Push" - as he spent a lot of time doing that, whether it was running or not. (running on flat ground was "acceptable", but even minor hills were another story).
Wish I had known of your "secret ingredients" - they would have improved on our "stand-by" and "fixit" time - but might have cut down on a lot of laughs.

Sorry for the "hi-jack", couldn't resist.

~

JC

[SonicLogic]

msmd1 wrote:
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline is the premier standard for gasoline performance. Six of the world's top automakers, BMW, General Motors, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen and Audi recognize that the current EPA minimum detergent requirements do not go far enough to ensure optimal engine performance.

You mean the oil companies are marketing to us so they can charge us more for no reason?

OMG, I'm shocked.

[bill_h]

professor95 wrote:


My gosh, Bill, what was your major - Rocket Science?

I was involved with road racing and had done model airplanes and gokarts as a kit.

I remember the Puch as the Sears Allstate 250.

It was. Sears also sold a 175 Puch under the Allstate name. The 250s were unique in that they had two cylinders operating as a single cylinder. They were called twingles of split singles.

I started with a Cushman Eagle, then a 8 hp Cushman Super Eagle

My first bike (@ 14)was an ancient Harley W45 that was so worn that a Cushman Eagle could beat me away from a stop sign.

followed by a ........ 250 cc Zundap

I had a Zundapp Bella scooter that I moved some parts around to make it more like a Challenger/Super Sabre under the tin. Looked like a Buick but went like a rocket.

before I jumped to a 700 cc Norton Atlas at 16.

Nice bike, especially for a 16 yr old. I still have my 750 Atlas. It was kind of piggy until I replaced the 7.6:1 pistons with 10.5:1.

]quote]the old scooter engines that had points and a flat head design.

Cars did back then, too.

[Skibane]

msmd1 wrote:
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline is the premier standard for gasoline performance. Six of the world's top automakers, BMW, General Motors, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen and Audi recognize that the current EPA minimum detergent requirements do not go far enough to ensure optimal engine performance.

It may be good-quality gasoline, but it still contains the typical amount of ethanol. From the Top Tier Deposit Control web page:

The base fuel shall have the following specific properties after the addition of ethanol:

1. Contain enough denatured ethanol such that the actual ethanol content is no less than 8.0 and no more than 10.0 volume percent.
2. Contain no less than 8 volume percent olefins. At least 75% of the olefins shall be derived from FCC gasoline as defined by CARB (advisory letter, April 19, 2001).
3. Contain no less than 28 volume percent aromatics as measured by ASTM D 1319 or D 5580.
4. Contain no less than 24 mg/kg sulfur as measured by ASTM D 2622 or D 5453. At least 60% of the sulfur shall be derived from FCC blend stock.
5. Produce a 90% evaporation distillation temperature no less than 290F. as measured by ASTM D 86.
6. Produce IVD no less than 500 mg averaged over all intake valves.

[pritch272]

clicky: Diesel_Fuel_Tech_Review.pdf

[byates]

professor95 wrote:

byates wrote:

professor95 wrote:

Gas at Mom & Pop or discount outlets will vary according to where you live. In my town gas for Kroger comes straight from the Shell Oil tanker terminal. Of course, it could come from elsewhere next year if another company turns in a lower bid. I do NOT buy discount gas away from home because I do not know where it comes from. B

SNIP


A fuel terminal can supply gasoline to any number of retailers in a given area, whether the retailers are Shell, Chevron, Exxon, “Mom and Pop”, Kroger, etc. What distinguishes one brand of gasoline from another occurs when the additive package of each brand is splash blended in the delivery tank truck after the bulk product is loaded. The additives of each brand are actually blended in the truck as it makes its way to the delivery destination. Mom and Pop or Kroger will not receive the same blended product that a Shell or Chevron retailer receives, regardless of its supply terminal operator.

byates

OK - you learn something new every day. I thought the additives and blending were done in the terminal tank - guess not!

What do you know about diesel fuel? I know some additives are promoted to prevent growth of algae from bacteria. Diesel is new to me as a motor fuel so I am learning.

Don't know how to tie this into the thread topic of Chinese generators other than thinking about what brand of fuel to use in the genny tank.

See chapter 7, which covers diesel additives
http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/fuels/documents/Diesel_Fuel_Tech_Review.pdf

[professor95]

bill h wrote:


SNIP

I devised a part time setup that injected some Francisco Two-Snapper fuel directly into the intake manifold. It contained nitromethane and alcohol, as well as castor oil to prevent piston sticking, which was the usual failure mode for that bike.

SNIP

My gosh, Bill, what was your major - Rocket Science?

You were way, way ahead of me and my scooter crowd!

I remember the Puch as the Sears Allstate 250.

When I was growing up (in Tennessee) you could get a restricted license for a "scooter" at age 14 if it was 5 hp or less. We could ride only in daylight and were not suppose to go further than 7 miles from our home. At 16 those restrictions were removed.

Larger scooters and bikes often had a restricter plate installed by a dealer that wrote out a 5 hp certification slip. It did not take long to remove the plate, file it out and replace it. We left the modified plate in because the cops would look for the aluminum edge.

I started with a Cushman Eagle, then a 8 hp Cushman Super Eagle followed by several Triumph Tiger Cubs and a 250 cc Zundap before I jumped to a 700 cc Norton Atlas at 16.

EVERY kid in town had a scooter of some sort and we rode them every where.

I guess that was where I got my start on messing with small air cooled engines. There were all sorts of ways to hop them up - but nothing like what you did!

The GX engines on the Chinese generators have certainly improved over the old scooter engines that had points and a flat head design.

[professor95]

byates wrote:

professor95 wrote:

Gas at Mom & Pop or discount outlets will vary according to where you live. In my town gas for Kroger comes straight from the Shell Oil tanker terminal. Of course, it could come from elsewhere next year if another company turns in a lower bid. I do NOT buy discount gas away from home because I do not know where it comes from. B

SNIP


A fuel terminal can supply gasoline to any number of retailers in a given area, whether the retailers are Shell, Chevron, Exxon, “Mom and Pop”, Kroger, etc. What distinguishes one brand of gasoline from another occurs when the additive package of each brand is splash blended in the delivery tank truck after the bulk product is loaded. The additives of each brand are actually blended in the truck as it makes its way to the delivery destination. Mom and Pop or Kroger will not receive the same blended product that a Shell or Chevron retailer receives, regardless of its supply terminal operator.

byates

OK - you learn something new every day. I thought the additives and blending were done in the terminal tank - guess not!

What do you know about diesel fuel? I know some additives are promoted to prevent growth of algae from bacteria. Diesel is new to me as a motor fuel so I am learning.

Don't know how to tie this into the thread topic of Chinese generators other than thinking about what brand of fuel to use in the genny tank.

Thanks for the valuable info.

[professor95]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:


Prof - somehow the question flew over your head! 😞

Question (and ATF/Acetone home brew) had *NOTHING* to do with Top oils, etc.

Question was what you -or anyone else- preferred as a PENETRATING OIL . . . .

- - the stuff to free-up RUSTED BOLTS
eg; Liquid Wrench, PB Blaster, etc.

Sometimes new chemistry provides new solutions for old problems!

BTW - I've never tried the Acetone/ATF . . . for anything, LOL!

~

JC

Sorry - lots of stuff fly's over my head these days.

PB Blaster. Don't know how it does it, but it works.

I also have an air driven impact wrench that provides 900 foot pounds of torque.

If PB and the impact wrench do not do the job there is always the blue flame wrench. Heating to cherry red then letting it cool usually works. If not, I just cut the darn thing off.

[byates]

professor95 wrote:

Gas at Mom & Pop or discount outlets will vary according to where you live. In my town gas for Kroger comes straight from the Shell Oil tanker terminal. Of course, it could come from elsewhere next year if another company turns in a lower bid. I do NOT buy discount gas away from home because I do not know where it comes from. B

It is true that gas at Mom and Pop or discount outlets can vary, but the variance is not due to the location of its supplier. Bulk gasoline, diesel fuel, and aviation fuels are generally shipped from domestic refiners, and in some cases from foreign fuel tankers, via pipeline to bulk storage terminals across the nation. These fuel terminals can be owned or operated by any petroleum entity.

Gasoline produced at refineries, whether owned by Shell, Motiva, Chevron, ExxonMobil, Valero, ConocoPhillips, or Hugo Chavez, is a base product and is usually the same regardless of the refiner. (Texaco no longer owns or operates its own refineries. Its refineries were acquired a few years ago by Shell and Motiva, when Chevron purchased Texaco. The brand Texaco is now owned by Chevron and is the same fuel products found at a Chevron retailer.)

A fuel terminal can supply gasoline to any number of retailers in a given area, whether the retailers are Shell, Chevron, Exxon, “Mom and Pop”, Kroger, etc. What distinguishes one brand of gasoline from another occurs when the additive package of each brand is splash blended in the delivery tank truck after the bulk product is loaded. The additives of each brand are actually blended in the truck as it makes its way to the delivery destination. Mom and Pop or Kroger will not receive the same blended product that a Shell or Chevron retailer receives, regardless of its supply terminal operator.

These cross brand fuel transactions are governed by exchange agreements between petroleum companies and allow a brand to retail its fuel products in locations where it does not have a proprietary supply. Mom and Pop locations usually purchase its product from the local fuel distributor, who also loads at the supply terminal. Mom and Pop and Kroger will not receive the same additive package as a major brand receives, and there is a difference!

byates