Battery Experts, Reconditioning vs Equalization??

[3_tons]

I Finally received my new B&D VEC 1093DBD charger yesterday but have found the user manual to be a bit Spartan, particularly with regards to how 'Reconditioning' (a pulsation mode - per manual, "lead sulfate, an insulator, begins to build-up on plates"), differs in objective from 'Equalization' (per manual, "voltage rises, but does not go over 15.3v to 16.2v, depending on ambient temp."), but without any additional user manual clarification. Though the two methods/strategies differ widely (pulsation vs higher voltage - equalization stirring of chemical soup), it seems to me, that with either methodology the objective of removing sulfate from the plates is the same...Just more bells and whistles??

3 tons

[NinerBikes]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Hee hee hee, I love the "batteries versus casino or track remark". My total "activity" in casinos can be measured with less than 10 fingers. Sadly I know folks with battery banks worth more than everything I own including the clothes on my back.

I love declarative statements that attempt to include a few hundred million other people as being "The (correct) Only Way We Should Think". Buy this, do that. It is what makes forums entertaining.

The only time I go to a casino is for the banquet meals or to see a show. Everything else is somewhere between point A and B, A being the vehicle.

[Horizon170]

Mex, is this OK for testing my auto and deep cycle batteries?
Thanks,
http://www.carquest.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Test+Equipment+Battery+Hydrometer+-+Profes...

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Hee hee hee, I love the "batteries versus casino or track remark". My total "activity" in casinos can be measured with less than 10 fingers. Sadly I know folks with battery banks worth more than everything I own including the clothes on my back.

I love declarative statements that attempt to include a few hundred million other people as being "The (correct) Only Way We Should Think". Buy this, do that. It is what makes forums entertaining.

[BFL13]

12 hrs and down to 12.73 seems a bit soon to me to be that low. I would expect more like 13.2 next day and 12.x the day after that. Be prepared to see the SG in the "fair" zone, and the need to do some "recovery." It takes a while to bring them up to good shape but you can still use them. In fact using them is the best way to bring them back up!

EDIT I see in a note on testing the T-1275s that 1 hr 15 min after stopping the charge with batts at 14.94, the voltage had fallen to 13.43/13.40 Then next day voltage was 12.93/12.90. It falls more each day of course, but very slowly after reaching its real voltage at 12.7ish in a couple days.

[NinerBikes]

BFL13 wrote:

NinerBikes wrote:

BFL13 wrote:
When "recovering" beat up batteries with my VEC1093DBD, I have found that Equalizing (raises voltage) works up to a point, then SG stops rising. I then run a few Reconditioning cycles (voltage does not rise--some pulsing thing happens for 24 hrs a go) and then run another Equalize. This time the SG gets up a bit higher than last time.

I have done this many times now on various beat up batteries and am convinced that the Reconditioning "loosens up" things so the recovery using Equalize can advance some more. YMMV.

How deep a discharge or SOC do you go to first before doing this Reconditioning /Equalizing routine a few times to tune your battery up?

You get the batteries to "full" first before doing R or E. How far down they were before being brought to full doesn't matter I suppose, but in general the true deep cycle battery likes a good workout every so often by being deep cycled as with a 50-90 when camping.

After camping, then at home I recharge to full then do an E. If at home for a month on Float I do an E just to stir them up since my float charger is just a fixed voltage type.

If the batts are beat up and the SG does not come back with an E then I use the alternating R/E trick like I did with those T-1275s last year. Now they are in good shape I don't use the R, just the E as described above.

12 hours after a good 14.4V charge, I am sitting at 12.73 V on battery 1 overnight. Hopefully, my glass hydrometer arrives tomorrow, so I 'll know more about the SG soon enough. I picked the 2 out of the 4 batteries with the highest voltage still in them.

[BFL13]

NinerBikes wrote:

BFL13 wrote:
When "recovering" beat up batteries with my VEC1093DBD, I have found that Equalizing (raises voltage) works up to a point, then SG stops rising. I then run a few Reconditioning cycles (voltage does not rise--some pulsing thing happens for 24 hrs a go) and then run another Equalize. This time the SG gets up a bit higher than last time.

I have done this many times now on various beat up batteries and am convinced that the Reconditioning "loosens up" things so the recovery using Equalize can advance some more. YMMV.

How deep a discharge or SOC do you go to first before doing this Reconditioning /Equalizing routine a few times to tune your battery up?

You get the batteries to "full" first before doing R or E. How far down they were before being brought to full doesn't matter I suppose, but in general the true deep cycle battery likes a good workout every so often by being deep cycled as with a 50-90 when camping.

After camping, then at home I recharge to full then do an E. If at home for a month on Float I do an E just to stir them up since my float charger is just a fixed voltage type.

If the batts are beat up and the SG does not come back with an E then I use the alternating R/E trick like I did with those T-1275s last year. Now they are in good shape I don't use the R, just the E as described above.

[NinerBikes]

BFL13 wrote:
When "recovering" beat up batteries with my VEC1093DBD, I have found that Equalizing (raises voltage) works up to a point, then SG stops rising. I then run a few Reconditioning cycles (voltage does not rise--some pulsing thing happens for 24 hrs a go) and then run another Equalize. This time the SG gets up a bit higher than last time.

I have done this many times now on various beat up batteries and am convinced that the Reconditioning "loosens up" things so the recovery using Equalize can advance some more. YMMV.

How deep a discharge or SOC do you go to first before doing this Reconditioning /Equalizing routine a few times to tune your battery up?

[NinerBikes]

goldwinghauler wrote:
If most people added up their total batteries I assume most would have at least 7 or so. If not most of their hard earned $$$ was probably lost at the track or casino. Or they are still in diapers!

You also counting laptops, Chromebooks, Smart Phones, GPS units, digital cameras, and Flash lights for mountain bikes, helmets, guns and hand held?

[BFL13]

When "recovering" beat up batteries with my VEC1093DBD, I have found that Equalizing (raises voltage) works up to a point, then SG stops rising. I then run a few Reconditioning cycles (voltage does not rise--some pulsing thing happens for 24 hrs a go) and then run another Equalize. This time the SG gets up a bit higher than last time.

I have done this many times now on various beat up batteries and am convinced that the Reconditioning "loosens up" things so the recovery using Equalize can advance some more. YMMV.

[goldwinghauler]

If most people added up their total batteries I assume most would have at least 7 or so. If not most of their hard earned $$$ was probably lost at the track or casino. Or they are still in diapers!

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Open your battery manufacturing company right next to a Prozac factory.

[goldwinghauler]

Well back in the day when I was into serious boating I used to use a Delco Voyager Deep Cycle battery. Boy was that one fantastic battery. You could run it down over and over again with the trolling motor and it would always come back to 100%.

But in this world that we live in today of Wal-Mart and other fast paced companies and products, I am quite sure that the current Delco Voyager is no longer of the same quality and endurance.

I also purchased the same charger to be able to add a little 'Pixie' dust to my batteries in an attempt to prolong their life. List of current batteries in my household:

2-Trojan T-105 (6V) for my Lance 1181
1-Wal-Mart group 31 for my bass boat
2-Interstate 12v deep cycle batteries for the trolling motor
1-Interstate 12v battery for my 2005 Honda Goldwing
1-Yuasa 12v battery for my Can-Am 400 ATV
1-12V lawn tractor battery for my portable generator
2-12v AGM batteries in my 2012 Dodge 3500
1-12v Motorcraft battery in DW's 2008 Mustang GT

For a total of: 11 batteries I should open a battery manufacturing company and save my $$$.

[3_tons]

"Man what a mess we have. OK I'll get off the soap box now..."

Well Mex, I certainly hope not for too long, you Sir are a repository of fascinating battery wisdom and our consummate Educator!!

Best Regards,

3 tons

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Cycle life testing of a battery is a long, expensive, and b-o-r-i-n-g exercise. At least ten specimens have to be chosen at random, not of the same production batch.

I had to manufacture my own equipment from scratch. Nichrome resistance wiring with the durability overkill percentile that would make a book keeper scream in agony. Resistance comparability of ten circuits measured with a four wire milli-ohm meter then verified with a precision power supply and Manganin shunt to be positively assured all ten circuits were ABSOLUTELY identical. Amperage draws were within a HUNDREDTH of an ampere equal all 10 circuits.

OMRON precision interval timers with an accuracy of .001 second. A master power supply 200 amperes for group 24 RV batteries. Silver soldered connections, silver cadmium interface compound to join to battery posts.

10 Precision kWh meters in series with the negative leads. The meters had to be qualified before and after the tests.

42.5 ampere hour discharges at 05 amperes discharge rate. More than 8 hours discharge and 6 hours to recharge. Fourteen hours per cycle. Three hundred cycles.

1. Full conditioning (top charge)

2. kWh discharge to 12.00 volts, establishes available kWh available energy.

3. Hydrometer sampling

4. Drain and extract plates and lid

5. Autopsy positive and negative plates

6. Issue report of findings.

Now someone is going to tell me that some Gyro Gearloose peddling a pulse modulated power supply went through a similar protocol to verify whether or not their gizmo had any effect at all on points (1) through (5) as compared to normal charging and discharging cycling?

I tested batteries for N.A.S.A. and DOD because many fellow engineers understood my protocol and discipline. When I see the free-for-all atmosphere that exists in battery marketing today I cringe and get moody. It just isn't with batteries, we have RV tires that explode, a government of do-nothing drones that cannot put together a testing regimen requirement for manufacturers to meet and prove standards. Man what a mess we have. OK I'll get off the soap box now...