Brake fluid change?

[garyemunson]

Does anyone here actually follow Ford's recommendation to replace brake fluid every 2 years in an F53 chassis? For decades I've been using synthetic fluid and changing every 4 years. At that interval, the fluid is just beginning to change to an orange color. I doubt at 2 years you'd see any change. I've followed the 4 year time in all my vehicles for many years and have never had to replace a caliper/wheel cylinder/master cylinder/ ABS module. Different mfgs are all over the place with change intervals, our Caddy even calls for 10 years! I'd NEVER leave fluid in a vehicle that long. Any thoughts?

[otrfun]

Gjac wrote:
. . . there is always a middle ground . . . Life and travel all have some elements of risk and some of us are more conservative than others but there is always a middle ground.

^^Agree.

[otrfun]

babock wrote:
I change my brake fluid in all my vehicles every 2 or3 years. On my Lexus, I did it every 2 since the master cylinder/ABS unit was over $1000 And it was known that changing fluid increases its life.

It's cheap and easy.

Just draining the master cylinder and putting new fluid in it is kinda ridiculous. It's not the fluid that is going to be causing corrosion in your system.

If the brake fluid (along with the water, moisture, and contaminants that are emulsified within the brake fluid) doesn't cause the corrosion, then what does cause the corrosion? How do you remove it? What's the point of changing the brake fluid in the first place?

Most would agree a total brake bleed/flush is the most effective maintenance approach. However, to say anything short of a total brake bleed/flush is "ridiculous", well, that sounds like someone who may have the luxury of excess time and/or money on their hands. For the rest of us, I think common sense says maintenance doesn't have to be all or nothing to be effective.

[babock]

I change my brake fluid in all my vehicles every 2 or3 years. On my Lexus, I did it every 2 since the master cylinder/ABS unit was over $1000 And it was known that changing fluid increases its life.

It's cheap and easy.

Just draining the master cylinder and putting new fluid in it is kinda ridiculous. It's not the fluid that is going to be causing corrosion in your system.

[Gjac]

DFord wrote:
It took a bit of searching but I found this on page 45 of the "2004 Scheduled Maintenance Guide" for Ford vehicles. You don't have to do anything but put gas in your RV and drive it but if you want to do the right thing, you'll change that brake fluid as recommended and every other fluid at the recommended intervals.

I think what happens is when we don't understand something completely we look for yes and no answers. Some never change fluids and never have a problem. However there is always a middle ground, where you can check your fluids. The first time I changed the brake fluid after about 30k miles and 8 years it was black and I was going to Alaska so I changed it. I felt better descending steep hills with fresh fluid. The transmission fluid at 30k miles was dark and had a lot of chips and debris in it when I drained and replaced all the fluid. Next time at 60 k there were less chips at 90k there were still some debris. If I saw no chips or debris(clutch material) I would have extended the interval. Now if I stayed on the east coast and never climbed mountains out west maybe I would not have had to change it as frequently as I did. Some people change hoses and belts every 5 years I check mine for cracks and leaks every year and have only replaced 2 belts that were cracked so for, hoses are all original. Life and travel all have some elements of risk and some of us are more conservative than others but there is always a middle ground.

[mapguy]

Hydraulic Brakes systems are not 100% sealed. They are better sealed today than in the past.

Fluid dynamics dictate that air does enter the master cylinder reservoir every time the pedal is pushed to activate the brakes. When the pedal is released air escapes the master cylinder as the fluid retracts.

This is a simplification of a complex work cycle in a complex engineered system.

To have a 100% sealed system would require the system have a fulltime pump and valve spool system to reverse the fluid flow.

Air entrance into the fluid happens several ways even in a properly maintained system. Cooling in high heat system cycles can entrap air in fluid. One of the many reasons why periodic fluid changes are needed.

[ktmrfs]

brake Fluid change seems to vary signficantly by mfg. Currently two of my cars state "every two years", while my truck is 10 years or 100K miles. Past vehicles have varied from every year on up. Every vehicle I have owned did have a recomended brake fluid change interval either by years or miles or both.

[JimK-NY]

But you are unlikely to find that in a newer model's manual. It seems that reservoirs are now made to be sealed. The bodies are made with clear plastic so levels can be checked without removing the cap.

[DFord]

It took a bit of searching but I found this on page 45 of the "2004 Scheduled Maintenance Guide" for Ford vehicles. You don't have to do anything but put gas in your RV and drive it but if you want to do the right thing, you'll change that brake fluid as recommended and every other fluid at the recommended intervals.

[JimK-NY]

I checked my 2018 ram manual in detail. There is no recommendation to change brake fluid. There are several warnings. First only fresh fluid from a sealed container should be used. Second, the fluid level should be checked from the outside without opening the reservoir and finally the cap should be secure at all times. The manual also warns about adding fluid unnecessarily.

[road-runner]

DrewE wrote:

"Independent of the Maintenance Minder information, replace the brake fluid every 3 years."

2009 Honda Fit manual says the same thing, except it's "information display" in place of "information". Sprinter maintenance schedule says brake fluid change every 2 years.

As far as some manuals not calling for brake fluid change, there's a similar situation with Audi and BMW automatic transmission fluid going back more than 10 years. They both say it's lifetime fluid, and the transmission is "sealed for life". Audi dealers refuse to change the ATF. The transmission manufacturers on the other hand have a recommended change interval, and it's totally accepted in the enthusiast communities that the lifetime fluid is what limits the lifetime of the transmission.

[DrewE]

jjrbus wrote:

So I took a look, I see no reference to brake fluid change on my 2011 Honda fit and have went over 10,000 miles before the computer told me to change oil. I am sure that if I went to the Honda dealer they would insist that they recommend changing the fluid, but would be unable to provide a technical service bulletin from Honda.

My 2012 Honda Fit manual does say this (in the section about the Maintenance Minder display and Maintenance Service Items):

"Independent of the Maintenance Minder information, replace the brake fluid every 3 years." That isn't listed in the index under brake fluid or similar obvious headings. I would be very surprised if that was added in 2012 since the changes in the chassis systems between those two years were very minimal.

[mapguy]

JimK-NY wrote:

mapguy wrote:
...

My data is in the file cabinets and computers of the firms I worked at over a 35 year mechanic/Fleet Management career. Data is available from many resources besides the OEM manufacturer in all the business segments named. If hard data is what you need - where is yours to support your position. You have only attacked the real world knowledge that is trying to help educate people.

Bottom line here is safety and that is being ignored for the most part in this thread.
.....

So according to your "data" maintenance schedules from manufacturers are insufficient both for routine service and also for safety. Let us forget the analysis. What are your recommendations for overall maintenance requirements?

Sorry, I am done. Glad you "won"

[JimK-NY]

mapguy wrote:
...

My data is in the file cabinets and computers of the firms I worked at over a 35 year mechanic/Fleet Management career. Data is available from many resources besides the OEM manufacturer in all the business segments named. If hard data is what you need - where is yours to support your position. You have only attacked the real world knowledge that is trying to help educate people.

Bottom line here is safety and that is being ignored for the most part in this thread.
.....

So according to your "data" maintenance schedules from manufacturers are insufficient both for routine service and also for safety. Let us forget the analysis. What are your recommendations for overall maintenance requirements?

[mapguy]

JimK-NY wrote:

mapguy wrote:
...

Real world experience in commercial vehicles, construction equipment, powersports, motorsports and of course RV's has shown me that "Owners Manual" maintenance requirements are the minimum needed to meet Warranty requirements. ......

Again, where is the data? I also doubt that maintenance schedules are just a minimum needed for warranty purposes. Dealers want the manufacturers to provide extensive requirements.

Interesting that you focus on only one point in a response.You are focused on one point, not the big picture of vehicle safety and lifetime ownership costs.

My data is in the file cabinets and computers of the firms I worked at over a 35 year mechanic/Fleet Management career. Data is available from many resources besides the OEM manufacturer in all the business segments named. If hard data is what you need - where is yours to support your position. You have only attacked the real world knowledge that is trying to help educate people.

Bottom line here is safety and that is being ignored for the most part in this thread.

No, I don't change my oil @ 3k....

BTW, my current 2nd career revolves around the usage, storage, and analysis of location data.

[JimK-NY]

mapguy wrote:
...

Real world experience in commercial vehicles, construction equipment, powersports, motorsports and of course RV's has shown me that "Owners Manual" maintenance requirements are the minimum needed to meet Warranty requirements. ......

Again, where is the data? I also doubt that maintenance schedules are just a minimum needed for warranty purposes. Dealers want the manufacturers to provide extensive requirements.