Built-in Onan Generator - inverter compatibility

[jcpainter]

As we were ending our "snow birding" stay in Florida this year, we had Camping World install a Cummins Onan Marquis Gold 5500 generator and a 2000 watt Nature Power pure sine wave inverter/charger.

Our request was for a "pure sine wave" system that was safe for all of our sensitive electronics.

After 2 days of installation we were told that "Everything checked out fine, here's the book to read how to use it". This was late on on Good Friday and the service dept was trying to close. We were rushed out the door.

On our way home to TN, we opted to try out our new system by dry camping in a Wal-Mart parking lot.

I won't bore you with the details, but the system did not work fine. We've since taken it to a Camping World in TN. They had it for two days and are now saying that the two devices (that they sold us and installed in our rig) are not compatible. I believe they said that the inverter is a pure (true) sinewave, but the Onan generator is not. Apparently they are having this problem with other such systems that have been sold throughout the US recently and are "working on a solution".

I've been told that Camping World used to sell the Zantrex inverter and that it worked fine with the Onan generator. Going to the Zantrex site I see that they make both pure sine wave and modified sine wave inverters. I see an old youtube video where the true sine wave Xantrex was sold by Camping World.

Does anyone have the Onan generator described above working with a 2000W pure sine wave inverter/charger? If so, what brand inverter?

Any help in "layman's language" would be greatly appreciated.

[majorsmackdown]

Cheap or weird ? It wasn't cheap, and weird maybe - it's what camping world is selling. I've found in the past that they sell a lot of quality stuff and I assume someone at camping world put the equipment they sell through some sort of quality testing before they expose the public to it...

My point exactly, why would someone ask for specific information or help with specific hardware when there is so much general knowledge out there ? It's because sometimes the specifics aren't the same as the general.

Usually the generators aren't powering the inverters are they ? It's the batteries that power the inverters - and the generator would have to power the battery charger portion and work with the built in transfer switch. Many people on this thread said it should be fine and the installation is the problem - well... I'm here to say that with first hand knowledge of the specific components that a person can expect to have trouble. I'll admit, I'm new to the forum and didn't dive into the troubleshooting side of things until after I discovered there was a problem. So now I'd look into it - what inverter chargers with true sinewave do work well with the onan generators ?

Having goofed with it a little bit, I've tried to clarify what the trouble is. I've emailed nature power and will update if I get a reply.

[mena661]

jcpainter wrote:
Back to the question . . .

Is anyone on this forum running the Onan Marquis Gold 5400 generator with a pure sine wave inverter?

Thank you . . .

You mean 5500. Yes, there are a multitude of these generators powering a multitude of inverters, PSW or MSW. Nearly every Class A motorhome has that generator (or larger) in combination with various inverters. CW simply did not perform a proper installation IMO.


EDIT: Reading major's post...cheap, weird inverter.

People often add to a conversation without having background with the specific components a person is having the problem with - and make a lot of assumptions.

That's because, in this case, there SSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many inverters that work just fine with the Onan genny's (do you read any inverter/generator threads on this forum). It's most certainly acceptable IMO to troubleshoot from this particular bit of knowledge.

[majorsmackdown]

People often add to a conversation without having background with the specific components a person is having the problem with - and make a lot of assumptions.

For clarity - this specific nature power inverter/charger model has a built in transfer switch. I just installed mine and I'm having an issue with it also.

This unit is basically put in-line in an AC circuit. When the circuit gets external power (shore power or generator power) it turns on the built in charger and passes AC power through the unit to the downstream part of the circuit.

Mine will activate the charger when connected to city power, or my Honda eu2000i generator. It is flaky at best when my onan marquis gold 5500 watt generator is the external power source. It seems that if I turn on one of my overhead AC units the inverter/charger will start charging and passing current through. Also if the electric water heater is on and drawing power - the inverters transferswitch activates and the charger starts running. The remote display will indicate charging. If the overhead AC is not on, the inverter charger remains in INVERTER mode and keeps draining the batteries. (but it isn't charging them so that suckx) It doesn't seem to sense power from the onan generator properly and thus the built in transfer switch seems not to be functioning.

If someone finds a solution I'd like to hear it. Camping world didn't know ahead of time to warn me of such a possibility but with new gear coming out all the time I can't really blame them.

I'm considering a separate transfer switch and inverter and charger at this point. What a pain in the butt. I've got several hours routing that dang remote cable through the coach.

[John___Angela]

There must be a separate transfer switch that switches between shore and Generator. Can you confirm that this is the case?

I don' t believe that this is a compatibility issue as there seems to be no problem with the charge function taking place.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Sal,

1000% agreement

[Salvo]

The Onan has noise spikes that upsets this inverter functionality. Perhaps a few de-spiking capacitors at the inverter can fix the problem. Otherwise, it may be easier to replace the inverter.

Sal

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Sal, "clean power" can be expressed as a definitive number in total harmonic distortion. Few voltage regulators these days do not use PWM (digital) voltage regulation including primary excitation on multi megawatt power generators. It's the STATOR that determines the purity of sinusoidal waveform on an AC generator that is not part of an inverter system. For years I had as souvenirs 150 lb thyristors used as part of the DC megavolt transmission line running through Nevada.

Rejection due to "excessive" THD can be caused in two ways: One is the inverter is junk and rejects waveform more than say 4% distorted. The other is to have a generator (A Generac comes to mind) that loves to outgas electricity with more than 10% THD.

Onan has been around for a long time. I don't believe they would stoop to the point of reducing stator copper to where THD starts infuriating the clientele.

I am definitely not zeroing in on the poster. The inverter manufacturer design and spec department had and has their head somewhere where it should never go. There is a huge difference between an off-grid inverter charger and a UPS. A UPS can get away with claims of needing "perfect" input to charge batteries. An inverter with a charger on the other hand IMPLICATES it is going to be used with a generator.

This point should demonstrate the need for small generator manufacturers to concentrate on inverting output. The old 6.5 NH Onan produced relatively clean waveform.

But the inverter manufacturer is "generating" pure DOUBLESPEAK to the public. Converters built so poorly they cannot handle cheap generator waveform is included.

"We Never Intended For Our Super Duper All Terrain Tires To Be Used Off The Freeway!"

Sheesh!

[Salvo]

IIRC Wayne's Microlite does not provide clean power to his PD converter. That gen does not provide pure sine waves. The PD does not function well in that environment.

The Marquis Gold manual states it has digital voltage regulation. Sounds that it may not be pure sine wave. I would connect an oscilloscope to the loaded ac to verify waveform.

Sal

[time2roll]

jcpainter wrote:
HOWEVER, if the shore power is turned off and the generator is turned on (to power air, microwave, etc.), nothing in the new circuit box will run.

Faulty, miswired or nonexistent transfer switch between the main panel and sub panel.
Inverter is irrelevant.

Or maybe CW expected you to run these sub panel items on inverter full time (transfer switch not used)

Apparently it has an internal transfer switch.

I assume it is hard wired. Is there a 120v input and output power cable attached?

What does the display say?
Any error codes?

Inverter Manual

[jcpainter]

Back to the question . . .

Is anyone on this forum running the Onan Marquis Gold 5400 generator with a pure sine wave inverter?

Thank you . . .

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

A MODIFIED SINE WAVE GENERATOR........................................

I'm sitting here thinking of all the fun I could have with THIS ONE

How do you wind a generator to get modified sine wave?
Silly Rabbit! Use square wire!


Good luck to you. I'll keep all the info you provided if I ever run across a "NATURE POWER" inverter. AKA Harmonious Battery Honorable Model # Guixdong, Freedom Marching Song Blvd. Member of Loyal Party Member Tractor Plant 431

[2oldman]

jcpainter wrote:
HOWEVER, if the shore power is turned off and the generator is turned on (to power air, microwave, etc.), nothing in the new circuit box will run.

What happens if shore is on?

Since with most IC's you cannot charge and invert at the same time, it would appear the new circuits are only powered from the inverter. This is why I installed mine "whole house" so these issues do not appear. The only "incompatibility" is the way it's installed.

FYI - my Prosine IC was pretty picky about 'shore' power including generators and wouldn't pass AC it didn't like.

[The_Texan]

jcpainter wrote:

John & Angela wrote:
Assuming they were installed correctly there is no way that I know of to be not compatible. They are separate systems and one works when the other one doesn't.

What were the symptoms. What was it doing or not doing.

During the install, a couple circuits were moved into a new breaker box that the inverter should "feed".

When shore power is turned off and the generator is not turned on, the devices attached to the circuits in the new box work properly.

HOWEVER, if the shore power is turned off and the generator is turned on (to power air, microwave, etc.), nothing in the new circuit box will run.

Simple, not properly installed with a transfer switch........Nothing to do with the inverter or the generator. If it were properly installed, you would be a happy camper, with the existing components.

[jcpainter]

John & Angela wrote:
Assuming they were installed correctly there is no way that I know of to be not compatible. They are separate systems and one works when the other one doesn't.

What were the symptoms. What was it doing or not doing.

During the install, a couple circuits were moved into a new breaker box that the inverter should "feed".

When shore power is turned off and the generator is not turned on, the devices attached to the circuits in the new box work properly.

HOWEVER, if the shore power is turned off and the generator is turned on (to power air, microwave, etc.), nothing in the new circuit box will run.

[I_am_still_wayn]

jcpainter wrote:
...we had Camping World install a Cummins Onan Marquis Gold 5500 generator and a 2000 watt Nature Power pure sine wave inverter/charger.

Its too late now, but having Camping World install anything was your first mistake.