Continuous failure of TT wheel bearings - I am so ashamed...

[befu]

Hello, have a problem that I need to ask for some input on. Bit wordy with a 4 year history to tell, but here we go. We have a 2012 Puma 31dbts trailer that we have camped in 4 summers now, love it! The second year camping with it, I believe I over heated the brakes pulling around Ohio Pyle State Park in Pennsylvania. Did not notice damage then, but that is the first time I noticed the hot smell after towing in hills. (Yes, down shift and control speed, thought I was, last grade was rather severe and no shoulder. Learning as I go... anyways, they got smelly hot.) Rest of trip went well, had a blast.

Later that summer, 2nd year, I had the left rear bearing fail on me and it was pointed out by a passing vehicle. Outer bearing was shot, nut had some damage from hub wear, spindle did not seem to take damage. So I put a new seal, both bearings and cups in it with a new nut and went home without issue.

The next summer, third camping, I fought bearing heat issues. Never lost a bearing, but the two right side bearings would get hot. The front left side was cool, back left side was slightly warmer, right rear was getting hot and front right was about 10 degrees warmer. You could put your fingers on the hubs, but not for more than 5 or 6 seconds. I pulled them apart, put new bearings in and reset everything. Still getting warm, so replaced bearings, cups and seals. Would be better, but still get hot on 2 hour tows.

So last summer, 4th season, we had a big family trip out to Yellowstone from Indiana. I said the heck with it and purchased and installed new bearings, cups, seals, nut, drum and brake assembly from etrailer for the front right side, since that was the hottest one. Seem to do better and later we headed out on that 3,000 mile tow trip, which I constantly fought and worried with hot bearings on the right side of the vehicle. Left side was fine and cool. Last summer was pretty cool, so hot temps were not bad. Here is the kicker.

Made it out west and back to Wisconsin and I was waved down by a driver next to me about a rear wheel. Pull over and sure enough, that back left wheel bearing was shot again! Needed a new drum, nut and bearings as it wallowed out the outside bearing hub race location. All this with no indication of trouble like the hot bearings on the right side. So fixed that and while it works, it is still running warm while towing. Sometimes OK, sometimes a bit warm. But I do not feel safe towing right now. Now I am looking at what to do getting ready for the upcoming season.

The main thing that bothers me is I have not replaced anything on the one cool hub, but have adjusted brakes and greased the bearings. I am mechanically inclined, work on equipment all the time, fighting with am I the cause of this? Bearings are not that hard, I do not know what I am doing wrong. Have a full shop with presses, lathes, mill..... all kinds of toys. Have run bearings a flat loose so you could just feel a bit of wobble or give. have tightened one flat and also ran them an extra flat tight. All the same. One wheel cool, one wheel cool with two failures, two wheels hot to warm.

I am wondering if my spindles or axles are damaged? Last time digging into them, I did notice what I think is some colorization due to heat on the right spindles. How do you tell if the spindles are wore down or mis- shaped? Didn't think they are tempered. Are the inner bearing races spinning on the spindles?

I am not above putting two new axle assemblies under this thing. Or just buy the new axle tubes/spindles and weld the seats on. Looked at converting to hydraulic disc, but that is still using the same spindles. I guess I need to mic the spindles, where to look up the specs? The bearings came off the spindles, new ones went on easily, thought that was fine. Still, I would think the bearings turning on the spindles would get the spindles hot, not the brake hubs. Vehicle tows great, rolls fine. Doesn't seem to be dragging. Scaled the axles, everything is pretty heavy, but nothing at or over the axle spec weights. 5,200 pound axles, 3/4 ton burb with 8.1L in it, does fine. Have a scale at work so have checked it multiple times setting up the hitch distribution. I would like to think I am not an idiot, but what idiot would realize they are an idiot????? The only thing I have not changed is the axles and spindles. Well, and springs, equalizers and bushings.

Thoughts? What am I missing? new Axles? Motorhome? LOL, gotta get it fixed so we can go camping!!!!

Thank you.

[down_home]

befu wrote:
Just looked up my bearing numbers on etrailer by the number first, instead of by the 5200 pound axle.

Inner bearings are 25520/25580 and are used on 5200 to 8000 pound axles
Outer bearings are 67010/67048 and are used on 5200 to 7000 pound axles.

Doesn't seem like my bearings should be near their load limit.

I need to pull a wheel and hub and mic the spindle. Also check my suspension components, see if anything is loose or worn. Thinking back, I wonder if I have some movement back there. I remember something about my new clamping wheel chocks being different side to side at the end of last season, like wheel center distance wasn't the same. I wondered what was different about the chocks at the time, now it has me wondering.... maybe it wasn't the chocks. hope I wasn't close to losing an axle!

You may have found the problem. Worn out bushings in springs, bent axle, or hanger problems such as bent broke even.
The tire should be worn out too especially on one side.

[Gdetrailer]

befu wrote:
Dexter website:
Thank you for the dexter link. I believe that is how I am doing it. I had a mechanic working for me for awhile, even he looked at it and couldn't find anything wrong with it. Only thing that stood out was how much lube to add through the zerk fitting. I have never added enough grease through the zerk fitting to get the old grease to flow out of the end bearing, let alone flow out until new grease is visible. I thought that would be too much grease, as the ezlube spindles push the grease in to the back bearing first. This would require the entire spindle to be filled with grease, which I thought you did not want. There is quite a bit of grease in the cavity between the two bearings in the hub, but not filled. Comments on this?

As far as preload goes, I have run them so when you grab the tire you can just feel a bit of wobble on the rim moving. In the past, I preload the nut until this wobble just snugs up, but not any tighter. I do tighten it up more at first to make sure the bearings are seated and not being held out by the grease in them.

The text I bolded is your problem.

Unlike auto wheel bearings you DO NOT want to take ALL the "wobble" out. Doing so is putting way too much pressure against the bearings.

I do not use a wrench at all when initially snugging the wheel bearings, I simply hand tighten. Then while turning the drum I will use a short pair of pliers to tighten the nut ever so slightly (you will feel a slight amount of bearing "drag"). This is all you need to push the grease out of the way from the bearing surface.

The drum will STILL FEEL "WOBBLY".

Then per Dexter's instructions you MUST back off the nut slightly then retighten the nut so it just snug..

Then insert the pin and if the pin hole does not line up with the castle nut you MUST back off the castle nut to the closest opening.

Under no circumstance should you tighten the castle nut in order to insert the pin..

Unlike auto wheel bearings it is ACCEPTABLE to have some slop or play for the axle bearings..

You are overtightening and that is why they are running hot and failing.

I don't buy the idea that your axles are bent or defective or out of alignment.. Bent or alignment issues would cause more noticeable issues like excessive odd tire wear and or very poor trailer tracking/handling issues..

[befu]

Campin LI wrote:
Don't dismiss your brake controller. Make sure it is functioning properly.

Good point, have not looked into this. But when you activate the brakes, you can definately tell it! Doesn't mean they are not dragging though

I have adjusted the brakes also over time. Cranked them out until you could feel them drag and then crank them in until it spun freely.

[Campin_LI]

Don't dismiss your brake controller. Make sure it is functioning properly.

[befu]

Just looked up my bearing numbers on etrailer by the number first, instead of by the 5200 pound axle.

Inner bearings are 25520/25580 and are used on 5200 to 8000 pound axles
Outer bearings are 67010/67048 and are used on 5200 to 7000 pound axles.

Doesn't seem like my bearings should be near their load limit.

I need to pull a wheel and hub and mic the spindle. Also check my suspension components, see if anything is loose or worn. Thinking back, I wonder if I have some movement back there. I remember something about my new clamping wheel chocks being different side to side at the end of last season, like wheel center distance wasn't the same. I wondered what was different about the chocks at the time, now it has me wondering.... maybe it wasn't the chocks. hope I wasn't close to losing an axle!

[time2roll]

Have you gone back and checked the bearings that did not burn up if they still seemed adjusted right?

[befu]

Dave H M wrote:
It needs to go to a trailer shop. I mean like the real ones that do trailers all the time and do alignment.

My guess is if it comes out of the alignment and suspension check OK you need to have the same shop do the bearing service.

What is odd, is I replaced the front suspension and steering on my 99 half ton burb. ball joints, lower A-arms, shocks, tie rod ends, links, bearing hubs, half shaft, etc. In the end I did my own alignment by building a fixture and using a digital protractor. Thing rides great, tracks perfect, steering wheel is straight. No problems. But I can't replace taper wheel bearings in a trailer axle? I am gonna have issues..... LOL!

[befu]

It looks like a new axle or trailer shop is the way to go. I do not want to just take it to the local rv center, who knows who will work on it and I have not had good luck getting stuff serviced by others. I rebuild motors, do machine work, work on equipment at work, fix all kinds of stuff. Sad to think that a simple taper bearing is my undoing.... Pathetic for a hands on mechanical engineer really.

The axles do run at or over 4,500 pounds, but come one, they are rated for 5,200. Shouldn't you be able to run them at 5,000 pounds? Or do I just need "good" bearings for my 5,200 pound axles? A set of four each of Timken bearings (67010/48 and 25520/80) is about $125 at first glance on Amazon. Might be worth trying that first. Maybe the etailer bearings work fine until you start loading them up higher. Or it is my installation of them.

I don't know. 7,000 pound axles just does not seem to be an easy way to go. We do have a trailer center where they actually build trailers at, customize and fix them. have heard good things about I69 trailer center in Markle, it is a 30 mile tow for me, so not too bad. I just do not want to drop it off at an RV center locally and have some kid do the same thing I have been trying, charge me several hundred dollars and continue to have problems.

$300 for a new rear axle seems to be an easy test. If it works, just spend another $300 for the front one and be done with it.

[befu]

Dexter website:
Thank you for the dexter link. I believe that is how I am doing it. I had a mechanic working for me for awhile, even he looked at it and couldn't find anything wrong with it. Only thing that stood out was how much lube to add through the zerk fitting. I have never added enough grease through the zerk fitting to get the old grease to flow out of the end bearing, let alone flow out until new grease is visible. I thought that would be too much grease, as the ezlube spindles push the grease in to the back bearing first. This would require the entire spindle to be filled with grease, which I thought you did not want. There is quite a bit of grease in the cavity between the two bearings in the hub, but not filled. Comments on this?

As far as preload goes, I have run them so when you grab the tire you can just feel a bit of wobble on the rim moving. In the past, I preload the nut until this wobble just snugs up, but not any tighter. I do tighten it up more at first to make sure the bearings are seated and not being held out by the grease in them.

[befu]

Will have to check the equalizer linkage, have not looked into that.
Have not weighed it side to side, that is not easy with an 100,000 pound platform scale with guard rails running along it.
Oh, seals are fine. Have replaced them also. Measured spindle to make sure I am getting correct ones. My tandem boat trailer has the same size 5200 axles on it also, shares all parts except the rear seal is a different size. I make sure to keep them seperate. I also redid my trailer bearings and it is doing just fine. Never tow over 20 miles though, but they are cool and that weighs in at 8500 with the boat on it (Formula 272 LS).

[befu]

Bearings and grease.

I have been using bearings, drums and brake assemblies from etrailer. The bearing kit from them is about $19. The bearing kit from the Lippert website is $31. Doubt the bearings are different from the two locations. One thought was to replace all bearings and cups on all four wheels with higher end components, like timken or such. I have tried replacing just the bearing before since the cup looked fine, but have also replaced the whole thing when the bearing did not solve the issue.

The grease I have been using since the start is Valvoline DuraBlend, a sythetic blend grease. Drop point of 500 F. I have greased by hand and by using a bearing greaser (double cone with zerk fitting type). I have greased bearings before, I know to really work the grease in to the bearing until it starts squeezing out from the sides, then pack the sides with grease. I slather grease around on the inside portion of the hub between where the two bearings ride. Every time they have failed, there has been grease in the hubs and remnants of the bearing. I have even traveled with the grease gun and added several shots to each during trips. They do not get cooler. And the two failures I had were the outside smaller bearing, the inner was still working or semi working I guess.

[befu]

Axle weight info:

My Axles are by Lippert Components and are 5200 pound capacity axles. Trailer info says cargo is 2400 pounds max, trailer empty is 8,234 pounds. I thought total was almost 11,000, which is higher than the 10,000 my tow vehicle is rated for. It has never been over the trailer max GVWR any time I have weighed it.

Trying to find old notes about times I have weighed it, but the total rig often comes in at my 17,000 pound GCWR for the burb. Some short local trips I have been over the 17,000, but under 18,000 with flat towing and no issues. Tows really nice. Keep in mind, the same burb with 4.10 gears is rated at 19,000 pounds and from what I can find, is the same axles, brakes, etc. Not recommending it, just not interested into turning this into a srw tow nazi thread. This is about trailer bearings.

Two notes I found are 14860 total empty, trailer axles at 7240 total. This is with trailer pretty empty and just me in the burb. The other one was with the stabilizers off when setting it up. Total is 16,800: Front burb i s2940, rear is 5260, trailer axles at 8600. equalizers will move some of the rear axle to the front and trailer, but I do not think I have ever been over 5,000 on the trailer axles. Being within spec does not mean they are handling the weight though. I think rear axle on the burb is 5200 and with the equalizers on, it is below that fully loaded.

Still, I go on Ebay and 50 miles from me, lippert axles are available. 7,000 or 5,200 pound for $325 to $300 each. That is leaf springs to drums, ready to go. Of course, the 7,000 are 8 lug and will require new rims and tires which will push you into a 235/85r16 at $1,000 for a set of four with white rims! Then my tire diameter goes from 28.5" to 31.5", not sure I have 3" between my tires right now, or the clearance above them for an additional 1.5"!

This just opens a can of worms....

[Dave_H_M]

It needs to go to a trailer shop. I mean like the real ones that do trailers all the time and do alignment.

My guess is if it comes out of the alignment and suspension check OK you need to have the same shop do the bearing service.

[puttd]

I had a bearing that went on the very first trip on my brand new trailer. Bad axle. Nearly empty trailer. The company who replaced the axle told me that the axles were undersized for the trailer. My vote is for the axle.

[Big_Katuna]

And the rear axle usually carries more weight than the front.
The fact they all are running warm make me think me think the axles are running near max.