Convert our Trailer's electrical system from 30 to 50 amp

[NLPRacing]

We have a 2013 Kodiak 300BHSL and we love it. But, we have found a few short comings. The AC is not quite capable of cooling down this whole rig on a hot, sunny Texas day and when you get electronics for five people going at one time, you pop the breaker quite often.

We can live with the AC by finding shadier sites in the summer & using fans inside to circulate the air, but I would really like to address the lack of electric amperage.

Before we start, we use our trailer for camping and we use it as a hotel suite when vacationing. When we go camping, the kids are not allowed to be on electronics until bedtime if at all. But when we're vacationing (depending on where we are at), there's four TV's, four DirecTV DVR's, three iPad's, a PlayStation, three laptops, five phone chargers, two fans, outdoor beer fridge, party lights, etc.

With that said, I was hoping somebody here knew of a shop or electrician with experience on the type of conversion I am looking for somewhere in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. I would even travel a few hundred miles to get it done right. I know it will be expensive, but we plan on keeping & using this trailer for many years.

I will admit, when it comes to electricity, I'm a novice. I'm not 100% sure if converting to 50 amp would fix our issue or if maybe we switched our power supply to an inverter/charge system to something like a Xantrex Freedom SW with extra batteries & solar panels would accomplish the same thing.

Any & all help related to resolving my electrical issue will be greatly appreciated!

[NLPRacing]

Quick update, I installed a "hard start capacitor" on my AC and that seems to have fixed my circuit breaker popping problem. I've had it out a few times now with everything on, including the coffee maker & electric water heater, with no issues.

[gwrace]

This may be the company called power solutions that has been referred to on this site.

http://www.jtbmfg.com/

[Bubbaclyde]

Since it is a relatively new trailer, have you discussed this problem with the dealer where you bought it? There could possibly be some wiring issues, loose wires, bad breakers etc and it may be covered under warranty or recall. Most travel trailers/motorhomes I have owned in the past have had trouble with the A/C being able to keep up in the Texas heat and humidity. The 13,500 BTU/hr A/C alone can pull 3956 Watts when running continuously, which, it will run continuously when trying to keep up while the trailer is sitting out in the hot Texas heat and it seems to be running continuously because it will not cool the trailer properly. The 30 Amp x 120 Volt outlet leg on the pedestal is rated at 3600 Watts max. Amps x Volts = Watts. Considering the power the A/C is drawing, the electric water heater, the electric refrigerator, another beer refrigerator outside that is probably running constantly trying to keep up in the heat, all of the electrical items combined, are you starting to see where there could be a problem with overload? Does your trailer have a 30 amp main breaker located in the trailer breaker box? If it does, and the breaker never trips but the parks pedestal 30 amp breaker trips, it seems like you could have either a problem in the shore power cable/cord which is causing the pedestal breaker to trip, or the parks 30 amp breakers are old and may be tripping at say 20 amps or so instead of allowing a full 30 amp power and that could be why the pedestal breaker trips before the trailer breaker does. Breakers do deteriate and go bad. The reason it doesn`t trip the 120 Volt leg on the 50 Amp plug with your adaptor is because you have more power available to you, even though it is still 120 Volts on the leg you are using on the 50 Amp. 50 Amps x 120 Volts = 6000 available watts. If you are still tripping the 50 amp breaker occasionally, there is a major problem somewhere and if there isn`t one now, there soon will be as the shore power cable is rated for 30 Amps power and doesn`t have the wire size or capacity for 50 Amps and/or more. It will eventually melt down on you and possibly burn your trailer down in the process or electrocute somebody. The 30 amp breaker in the trailer, if it has one, will not stop this from happening. With all of the accessories you are using, a 50 amp upgrade is definitely the way to go. Your trailer may already be pre-wired for another A/C unit but you will need the 50 amp service to run it as the two A/C units will run off opposing 120 volt legs on the 240 volt, 50 amp service. Do you have the build sheet for your trailer? If not, you should be able to get it and wiring diagrams for your trailer, from the factory. Another thing, the A/C could possibly not be cooling properly because it is not operating with enough voltage because of all the power being robbed to run other things. The less voltage available to you, the less efficiency you will have available. Example; 120 Volts x 30 Amps = 3600 Watts. 108 Volts x 30 Amps = 3250 Watts. Did it cool properly before trying to use all of the other items? Have you checked the voltage available to you at the parks? Have you checked the amps being pulled by your trailer? A good $100 multi-meter/amp meter is cheap compared to burning down a $40,000 trailer. You could also start out running just what the trailer had on it when you bought it and then add one thing at a time until you find the point that it`s tripping your breaker and then add up the total wattage you were using. The best way would be to figure out your electrical load you have been using is by adding up the wattage of all the items you are using plus the equipment in the trailer. Keep in mind too that to be safe, you should only use 80-85% of available power. Example; 3600 watts available x 85% = 2880 watts. One more question, is this happening to you everywhere you go or is the problem isolated to one park? Sorry my response is so long winded but I hope this helps you out.

[mrekim]

LarryJM wrote:


No that is not correct if the end of the shore power cord in the case of detachable cord shorts out at the inlet connection of the trailer the breaker in the trailer will never see that current. The path would be from the pedestal to the inlet connection and then back to the pedestal and never reach the breaker inside the trailer. However, this is a common concern/minor issue even when using the simple 50A to 30A dogbone. The non weatherproof connections on the end on the dogbones in the links above where that 30A female recepticale is that you would plug in your existing shore power cord and the second shore power cord is on reason my dogbone has the "IN-USE" weatherproof covers which do the same thing as the cover found on all pedestal electrical outlets. My dogbone will also not lay on the ground since it's not long enough and the bottom outlet is hardly ever closer to the ground than about 2 to 3 inches.

Larry

Good point. I stand corrected.


For the OP, having the 50 amp breaker trip without tripping the trailer 30 amp main is a concern as well since it should not happen. Maybe something like the above scenario?

So I guess to be as safe as possible, the TT cord and the wire to the main breaker in the TT should be 50A rated, or there should be some kind of breaker built into the dogbone?

[LarryJM]

mrekim wrote:

pianotuna wrote:


The trailer breaker can not protect the cord because the cord comes before the breaker.

The trailer main breaker will still limit the flow through the cord to 30 amps.

No that is not correct if the end of the shore power cord in the case of detachable cord shorts out at the inlet connection of the trailer the breaker in the trailer will never see that current. The path would be from the pedestal to the inlet connection and then back to the pedestal and never reach the breaker inside the trailer. However, this is a common concern/minor issue even when using the simple 50A to 30A dogbone. The non weatherproof connections on the end on the dogbones in the links above where that 30A female recepticale is that you would plug in your existing shore power cord and the second shore power cord is on reason my dogbone has the "IN-USE" weatherproof covers which do the same thing as the cover found on all pedestal electrical outlets. My dogbone will also not lay on the ground since it's not long enough and the bottom outlet is hardly ever closer to the ground than about 2 to 3 inches.

Larry

[mrekim]

pianotuna wrote:


The trailer breaker can not protect the cord because the cord comes before the breaker.

The trailer main breaker will still limit the flow through the cord to 30 amps.

pianotuna wrote:

My "reading" of what he says, is that the 50 amp pedestal breaker is tripping. I repeat "this is a SERIOUS overload" of a 30 amp cord.

Yes,it's a serious overload if that's occuring. That also means that the 30A main breaker in the trailer is not working.



OK, here's the quote:

NLPRacing wrote:
What's kind of funny is that when I use my 50 to 30 amp adapter, we usually trip the pedestal breaker less than when we are plugged into the 30 amp on the same pedestal. I'll keep you updated.

This seems strange to me. I don't think the 50A breaker should ever trip before the trailer main. Does the trailer have a main 30A breaker that turns off all power?

[wa8yxm]

Two suggestions:: First if it is a trailer with NO Generator, and NO EMS (energy Management System, alas in these forums EMS has three meanings) then all you need do is replace the power cord and breaker box.. assuming the breaker box is not also your fuse box and inverter.... Fairly easy job.

Suggestion: Since the main issue seems to be the A/C....

Two suggestions: IF you have an EMS then find the wire from the EMS relay board to the Air Conditioner,, REMOVE it and rout it to a Junction box.

Run 12ga wire from said J-box to an INLET (This is a plug like device) or .. Well read on for what I used.. A 20 amp type would be best.

Run a 20ga lead from the original connection point on the EMS to an OUTLET

NOTE: Mount these inlets and outlets in an outside compartment in a weather protected space!!!.

Plug the outlet onto the inlet or the inlet (Plug) into the outlet for NORMAL operation.

If you need, as Tim Allen used to say on Home Improvement "MORE POWER"

Unplug the A/C from the outlet and use a 12GA extension cord to the park's 20 amp outlet.

NOTES:
A paranoid (And that includes me) Would want a 20 amp breaker on the back side of that inlet.. But though I am Paranoid, I trust the park's breaker.

Second.. I took a 12GA extension cord (Sears/K-Mart/Home Depot/Lowes/Menards and many good hardware stores) 2x the length I needed to get from the J-Box/Breaker box to the outside compartment where I parked it.. Cut it in half and used it.

NOTE: 2: SOLDER the junction, works better, you will need a good size gun or iron to solder 12ga wires, My little iron was not up to the job (My big gun was). I melted a junction when I just used a wire nut in the J-Box.

Finally.. If you do not have an EMS.. then it is easier, You simpley disconnect the wire from teh A/C Circuit breaker and wire it as above.

There used to be a company "Power Solutions for RV" (psrv dot com) But alas I have not been able to see their web page for a few years. This is basically.. Their design.

[peirek]

NLPRacing wrote:
We have a 2013 Kodiak 300BHSL and we love it. But, we have found a few short comings. The AC is not quite capable of cooling down this whole rig on a hot, sunny Texas day

I'll bet not.... Is it a 13.5K or 15K AC unit? Was the trailer built to accommodate a second AC unit? If yes, than upgrading to 50A and adding that second AC unit would be your best bet to getting better cooling. This would also care for your multiple loads.

All of the others offering advice to plug in your external items fridge, lights, etc to the 15/20A pedestal outlet via extension cord is sound advice. However, it will not solve the cooling issue you mention.

[peirek]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi,

The trailer breaker can not protect the cord because the cord comes before the breaker. My "reading" of what he says, is that the 50 amp pedestal breaker is tripping. I repeat "this is a SERIOUS overload" of a 30 amp cord.

mrekim wrote:
Each leg is a 50 amp 120 volt circuit. There should be a 30 amp breaker in the trailer to protect the shore power line.

My reading is the 30A pedestal breaker is tripping. He is looking to convert to 50A.

[pianotuna]

Hi,

The trailer breaker can not protect the cord because the cord comes before the breaker. My "reading" of what he says, is that the 50 amp pedestal breaker is tripping. I repeat "this is a SERIOUS overload" of a 30 amp cord.

mrekim wrote:
Each leg is a 50 amp 120 volt circuit. There should be a 30 amp breaker in the trailer to protect the shore power line.

[pianotuna]

Hi,

If you are plugging a 30 amp cord into a 50 amp outlet using a dog bone adapter, and tripping the 50 amp pedestal breaker, you are WAY over what the 30 amp cord can carry safely.

[mrekim]

NLPRacing wrote:
I believe it's only pulling power from one "leg" of the 50 amp outlet.

Each leg is a 50 amp 120 volt circuit. There should be a 30 amp breaker in the trailer to protect the shore power line.

[NLPRacing]

Thanks for the info.

But, in regards to the "SERIOUSLY overloading the 30 amp supply cord" comment, I don't think that's true. When I am plugged into the 50 amp outlet using my 50 to 30 "dogbone" adapter, I believe it's only pulling power from one "leg" of the 50 amp outlet. Maybe someone smarter than me can chime in to explain that better.

pianotuna wrote:
Hi,

The fridge only draws about 325 watts on electric, so it is not much of a load. The water heater is about 1231 watts in my RV, and that is quite a good portion of the 3600 watts available.

It is perfectly normal to not trip the pedestal breaker when running a 50 to 30 amp adapter. If you are doing so, you are SERIOUSLY overloading the 30 amp supply cord. There is a possible fire risk, if this is happening.

NLPRacing wrote:
I can't remember if I tried running the fridge & water heater on propane while plugged in on shore power. I'll try that too to see if that makes a difference. Most places we camp at have 50 amp available. What's kind of funny is that when I use my 50 to 30 amp adapter, we usually trip the pedestal breaker less than when we are plugged into the 30 amp on the same pedestal. I'll keep you updated.

[pianotuna]

Hi,

The fridge only draws about 325 watts on electric, so it is not much of a load. The water heater is about 1231 watts in my RV, and that is quite a good portion of the 3600 watts available.

It is perfectly normal to not trip the pedestal breaker when running a 50 to 30 amp adapter. If you are doing so, you are SERIOUSLY overloading the 30 amp supply cord. There is a possible fire risk, if this is happening.

NLPRacing wrote:
I can't remember if I tried running the fridge & water heater on propane while plugged in on shore power. I'll try that too to see if that makes a difference. Most places we camp at have 50 amp available. What's kind of funny is that when I use my 50 to 30 amp adapter, we usually trip the pedestal breaker less than when we are plugged into the 30 amp on the same pedestal. I'll keep you updated.