Does Adding Water to the Batts Make You a Bad Person?

[BFL13]

I keep reading how it is a virtue not to have to add water to the batts because you bought the right sort of battery charger etc etc.

I don't get it.

My 6s are on solar and the controller has them back in Float in the afternoon most days in summer. Even so, I have to add water every so often, at least once a month. Nothing seems wrong.

I am suspecting that those who never have to add water are losing capacity because they never get their batteries gassing enough, so they sulfate. If they gas enough they will need water.

So it could be those who feel so virtuous now are ruining their batteries before their time.

What think?

[HiTech]

Not sure but guessing in high temps with too high a voltage the best bet it to only connect part time - ideally in the cooler parts of the day like morning, then pull the plug or fire up some loads to pull the charge down.

Jim

[HiTech]

Seems consistent with 1%-3% self discharge per month depending on the bank size.

Jim

[MEXICOWANDERER]

12.9 volts @ 50C (122F) max.

[full_mosey]

full_mosey wrote:

full_mosey wrote:

full_mosey wrote:


I remeasured today @ Noon.
Optimas = 108F
MS SS10 = 116F, jumpered at 14.4V
Turnigy Volts = 13.85, result of 116F ambient temp comp by SS-10

I will hook up the Turnigy to get the charging Amps and post around 3PM today.

I still maintain that I have never observed any out-gassing from either the Deka or the AGMs. If my AGMs are damaged, won't that be apparent when I run capacity tests next month?

HTH;
John

2PM;
Deployed the Turnigy. There was .30A and 7.75Ap reading. The 0.30A decreased to 0.00A within one minute. That's no, zero, nada mA.

3PM:
One hour readings:
Optimas = 110F
SS10 = 119F
Turnigy = 0.00A, 13.80V, 0.011Ah, 7.75Ap, 0.1Wh

I don't see any danger of outgassing with these readings as there is virtually no power.

For skits and grins, I changed the SS-10 jumper down to 14.1V which resulted in 13.50V, down from 13.80.

HTH;
John

It is now 8:53PM. sunset was 8:47PM. Let's call that 6hrs past 3PM.

Optimas 106F
SS-10 109F
Turnigy 0.00A 13.29V 0.011Ah 7.75Ap 0.1Wh

To wrap this up, I took readings this morning at 8 and 11AM. The Turnigy showed no change in Ah or Wh between the readings.

Turnigy = 0.00A, .163Ah, 2.1Wh.

This says that the Optimas were topped up and charging ceased sometime before 8AM. There was (0.163 - 0.011) 0.152Ah of charging this morning.

HTH;
John

[HiTech]

I'd try to get shade over the battery box if possible for batteries in really hot environment. It is the combination of ambient temp, direct sun on the box and large charging amps that I see generate the most heat on my set up. I try to mitigate one or more of those. You can also compute the proper charging and floating voltage from the battery specs at given temps and see if you are over.

It seems like different batteries have very different temp specs. Certainly batteries relying on starting battery components are designed to handle really high under hood temps, but also often see pretty incomplete charging in that environment. They get a big initial blast from the alternator but then charging often falls way off before they are full.

Jim

[pianotuna]

Hi,

I'd leave the panel and the controller to do their job.

I would be at an inexpensive campground:

freecampsites.net

[64thunderbolt]

I hear a lot about temps. What would you do here. Supposed to be 119 tomorrow 118 Sat 116 Sun & nothing under 113 for the next 7/8 days. Should I just shut off my small solar maintainer? 15w 7a I think it is. This is the first solar I've had. Was on the trailer when I bought it. It says it comes on @ 13.2 and off @ 14.4.

Sorry for the highjack but while everyone's in the mood??

[mena661]

full_mosey wrote:

And yes, Optima is very aggressive with their charging specs. The rapid charge spec of 15.6V with UNLIMITED Amps seems to cause the most heartburn around here with the FLA folks. I don't have any problem with that spec at all.

IMO, that 15.6V is the only way I can think of to blast lots of amps into a battery quickly. But I am far from an expert on this. Also, I thought MEX had mentioned that really low amps with "high" volts had no ill effects on a battery. Hopefully, he'll correct me if I misunderstood him.

[full_mosey]

full_mosey wrote:

full_mosey wrote:


I remeasured today @ Noon.
Optimas = 108F
MS SS10 = 116F, jumpered at 14.4V
Turnigy Volts = 13.85, result of 116F ambient temp comp by SS-10

I will hook up the Turnigy to get the charging Amps and post around 3PM today.

I still maintain that I have never observed any out-gassing from either the Deka or the AGMs. If my AGMs are damaged, won't that be apparent when I run capacity tests next month?

HTH;
John

2PM;
Deployed the Turnigy. There was .30A and 7.75Ap reading. The 0.30A decreased to 0.00A within one minute. That's no, zero, nada mA.

3PM:
One hour readings:
Optimas = 110F
SS10 = 119F
Turnigy = 0.00A, 13.80V, 0.011Ah, 7.75Ap, 0.1Wh

I don't see any danger of outgassing with these readings as there is virtually no power.

For skits and grins, I changed the SS-10 jumper down to 14.1V which resulted in 13.50V, down from 13.80.

HTH;
John

It is now 8:53PM. sunset was 8:47PM. Let's call that 6hrs past 3PM.

Optimas 106F
SS-10 109F
Turnigy 0.00A 13.29V 0.011Ah 7.75Ap 0.1Wh

There has been NO change in accumulated Ah and Wh.

The batteries are charged and surely there can be NO problem with out-gassing due to a complete lack of any power actually being applied to the bank. After all, this setup has been running for months.

I can't imaging how anything horrible like out-gassing could be happening to the bank.

And yes, Optima is very aggressive with their charging specs. The rapid charge spec of 15.6V with UNLIMITED Amps seems to cause the most heartburn around here with the FLA folks. I don't have any problem with that spec at all.

HTH;
John
P.S. actually 6hrs additional possible charge time.

[HiTech]

x2

[pianotuna]

Hi Jim,

That's why I insist that solar include a temperature sensor on the battery bank.

HiTech wrote:
I never know how to map the daily solar cycle into float specs properly.

Jim

[HiTech]

Those optimas have pretty rugged specs on them, if they are the same as These.

In float though I do think the statement is right above that float would get temperature corrected down way into the 12's. In charge those optimas sure have some rugged specs like 125 degrees and significant blasts of charging as long as it is time controlled.

Once charged though, that is the question. Should volts after that really be more in the 12's, or does it not matter due to charge current being low (the Turnigy shows 10ma and under as 0). If charging finishes in the morning when it is cooler, maybe there is not much impact? I never know how to map the daily solar cycle into float specs properly.

Jim

[full_mosey]

full_mosey wrote:


I remeasured today @ Noon.
Optimas = 108F
MS SS10 = 116F, jumpered at 14.4V
Turnigy Volts = 13.85, result of 116F ambient temp comp by SS-10

I will hook up the Turnigy to get the charging Amps and post around 3PM today.

I still maintain that I have never observed any out-gassing from either the Deka or the AGMs. If my AGMs are damaged, won't that be apparent when I run capacity tests next month?

HTH;
John

2PM;
Deployed the Turnigy. There was .30A and 7.75Ap reading. The 0.30A decreased to 0.00A within one minute. That's no, zero, nada mA.

3PM:
One hour readings:
Optimas = 110F
SS10 = 119F
Turnigy = 0.00A, 13.80V, 0.011Ah, 7.75Ap, 0.1Wh

I don't see any danger of outgassing with these readings as there is virtually no power.

For skits and grins, I changed the SS-10 jumper down to 14.1V which resulted in 13.50V, down from 13.80.

HTH;
John

[HiTech]

Yes. You'd never notice the levels I am talking about. They are not catastrophic failures or thermal run away. Just gassing faster than you might want, which reduces capacity over time. You would have to go to silly levels of thinking about it to be able to detect this kind of outgassing.

Your battery OEMs might be willing to tell you some techniques for charging in hot conditions. For every 10 degrees C over 25 (77f), all the chemical processes in the battery double. 116 degrees is one chemically active battery. Higher temps just plain age batteries, even if you get everything Perfect. Especially batteries where you cannot get in and reduce the specific gravity to compensate a bit.

Jim