Electrical Help Needed...TriMetric / Xantrex / Coffee

[Rbertalotto]

I have a Xantrex ProWatt 1000 installed in my trailer......4g wire less than 18" directly wired to the two 12v, group 31AMG batteries wired in parallel ....250a Circuit breaker between the batteries and the inverter

The "house" main wire is 4g to the circuit breaker / charger panel in the trailer with a 30a circuit breaker at the battery....the run is about 12'

I just bought a Keurig K130 Hotel/Commercial version coffee brewer. I went this route because this unit only draws 700 watts as opposed to all the other Keurig machines that draw up to 1500 watts. Many hotels have insufficient wiring in the rooms so this unit is designed just for them.

So....With trailer disconnected from "shore power"....running just on batteries with 280w solar panels.....when I turn on the coffee machine, drawing AC current through a "Kill-A-Watt" it shows I am using 5.6 amps......But my "TriMetric" battery monitor is showing a drain of -45 AMPS!!! In fact, at start up it goes as high as -52 AMPS.........AND..It is a sunny day and the solar panels are outputting 7 AMPS so those numbers are really -52 and -59 AMPS......

In fact, during one test I tripped the 30a "house" circuit breaker...............Very strange since the Xantrex is not drawing current through this circuit at all. It is directly wired to the two batteries.

I can't figure it out.....Why would the house breaker trip? The only connection between the Xantrex and the house wiring is both are attached to the "+" terminal on the battery and both "-" are connected to the TriMetric's shunt.

Any ideas?

[MrWizard]

pianotuna wrote:
My induction NuWave unit draws variable wattage. When it is first turned on it draws the maximum wattage--even if set to low. Once it reaches the set point temperature it cycles quite rapidly (too fast for a kill-a-watt meter) through various wattages.

You may find that a 1500 watt inverter might not be big enough to handle the induction cooker.

sounds like these work by using a switching circuit
timing the off on cycle to maintain the power setting/heat level

you might find that the switching cycle just changes cycle time to more often , when presented with lower input power

even though it is an inductive load, it does NOT have the LRA of an A/C unit

[MrWizard]

pianotuna wrote:
I can tell you that the NuWave 1300 watt will boil water faster than a 3000 watt traditional stove top burner.

3000w are you talking electric range in the stick and brick
3000w would 26 amps at 120v

LP burners are rated BTU, not sure what RV burners are rated, maybe around 6000btu

6000btuHr = 1758watHr

1300w = 4435 btu

800w = 2729 btu

[Calkidd]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:


http://www.agrisupply.com/carolina-cooker-single-burner-cast-iron-stove/p/56913/

This post got me curious about just how long it takes to boil water. This burner will take 22 oz of 60F water to boiling in 57 seconds. 15,000 BTU will do that 🙂

On a range top, 5 qts of water takes 23 minutes to boil (covered). With this burner the water is boiling in 7 minutes. I heated an 14 quart pressure cooker with pot roast ingredients in 6 and a half minutes.

But most importantly, I have French Press coffee in my genuine "Wal-Mart Bubba" cup in under two and a half minutes.

No batteries required

The Keurig is not inferior - it is merely, uh, different. That, and what (35) different types of "coffee"?

But this is not what the OP is discussing. Yay for you, you can boil water faster than anyone on the forum.

Please resume normal programming.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
westend, I certainly was not trying to "sway" the OP. But even a pure resistance of nichrome seems to incur an inrush. My exotic habit of disassembling a subject allows me to weigh all factors then come up with a plethora of permutations.

To set me engine back on the rails, the OP needs to actually MEASURE the voltage at the inverter studs when the Keurig is started. If the voltage remains above threshold value then the inverter becomes suspect ONLY WHEN AFTER the circuit breaker fasteners are examined and re-tightened.

Breakers are not eternal. After a few years the bi-metallic elements become annealed especially if they have carried a lot of current. Then there was my Mexico odyssey of a brand new box of 12 SIEMENS breakers that tripped at 13-amperes at 122 volts after 40-95 seconds of 13 ampere operation.

If when troubleshooting a troubleshooter relies on ASSumption then umption can be omitted.

Correctly administered tests using instrumentation will eliminate guesswork 100% of the time.

Hee hee

Paul Newman's, Blend and Dunkin' Donuts, blend are utterly safe and secure around me 🙂

BTW, that burner image is for a 15,000 BTU eleven dollar unit.

I may be the only person to have ever used COWBOY COFFEE preparation to make a kettle of JAMAICAN BLUE MOUNTAIN COFFEE at Dick's Lake, Desolation Wilderness CA. in 1977. Gawd it was gooooooood!

[MEXICOWANDERER]

westend, I certainly was not trying to "sway" the OP. But even a pure resistance of nichrome seems to incur an inrush. My exotic habit of disassembling a subject allows me to weigh all factors then come up with a plethora of permutations.

To set me engine back on the rails, the OP needs to actually MEASURE the voltage at the inverter studs when the Keurig is started. If the voltage remains above threshold value then the inverter becomes suspect ONLY WHEN AFTER the circuit breaker fasteners are examined and re-tightened.

Breakers are not eternal. After a few years the bi-metallic elements become annealed especially if they have carried a lot of current. Then there was my Mexico odyssey of a brand new box of 12 SIEMENS breakers that tripped at 13-amperes at 122 volts after 40-95 seconds of 13 ampere operation.

If when troubleshooting a troubleshooter relies on ASSumption then umption can be omitted.

Correctly administered tests using instrumentation will eliminate guesswork 100% of the time.

Hee hee

Paul Newman's, Blend and Dunkin' Donuts, blend are utterly safe and secure around me 🙂

[brulaz]

pianotuna wrote:
My induction NuWave unit draws variable wattage. When it is first turned on it draws the maximum wattage--even if set to low. Once it reaches the set point temperature it cycles quite rapidly (too fast for a kill-a-watt meter) through various wattages.

You may find that a 1500 watt inverter might not be big enough to handle the induction cooker.

oh-oh. Guess we'll find out ...

[pianotuna]

I can tell you that the NuWave 1300 watt will boil water faster than a 3000 watt traditional stove top burner.

[pianotuna]

My induction NuWave unit draws variable wattage. When it is first turned on it draws the maximum wattage--even if set to low. Once it reaches the set point temperature it cycles quite rapidly (too fast for a kill-a-watt meter) through various wattages.

You may find that a 1500 watt inverter might not be big enough to handle the induction cooker.

[brulaz]

DrewE wrote:

brulaz wrote:

It will be interesting to see whether this induction hot plate on the 800W setting can heat 1.7L of water faster than the propane burner. Of course on shore power we can bump it up to 1500W.

800W is equivalent to 2700 BTU/hr (in an energy sense). The propane burner will almost certainly be quicker, even taking into account the less efficient heat transfer. (RV stove burners typically are around 6500 to 10,000 BUT/hr.)

Thanks for that.

Anecdotally have heard that 1500W Induction is faster at heating water than a typical gas range burner. If true, the stove burner must be very inefficient given the numbers above. Which is another reason we're interested in induction, particularly in the summer when boondocking without A/C.

When it's colder, might revert to propane, also as there's usually less sun then so harder to keep the batteries up.

[DrewE]

brulaz wrote:

It will be interesting to see whether this induction hot plate on the 800W setting can heat 1.7L of water faster than the propane burner. Of course on shore power we can bump it up to 1500W.

800W is equivalent to 2700 BTU/hr (in an energy sense). The propane burner will almost certainly be quicker, even taking into account the less efficient heat transfer. (RV stove burners typically are around 6500 to 10,000 BUT/hr.)

[brulaz]

My wife's a tea drinker and I like to grind my own beans, so we heat up 1.7L in an electric water kettle each morning when on shore power, or use propane and a SS kettle when not. I usually use a Melitta filter cone for the coffee but like presses too.

Now that we've upgraded the battery bank to ~440Ah, have been thinking about replacing the old electric kettle or morning propane burn with an electric induction hot plate. The one I've ordered allows you to choose the wattage; important as we only have a 1000W inverter.

It will be interesting to see whether this induction hot plate on the 800W setting can heat 1.7L of water faster than the propane burner. Of course on shore power we can bump it up to 1500W.

The tricky part will be remembering to set the induction hot plate back down to 800W when boondocking. But I guess burning out the 1000W inverter would force me to spend the $$ to upgrade to 2000W.

[MrWizard]

Works like a charm

[Rbertalotto]

While I was making coffee this AM I shot a little YouTube video that shows how quickly this little Keurig machine can make a cup of coffee from your 12V / Inverter system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCRTcpqjKCA&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCRTcpqjKCA&feature=youtu.be

I'm very happy with this machine. Perfect for my coffee addiction!

[MrWizard]

this is what we have in the hotel room
https://hdsupplysolutions.com/wcsstore/ThdsMroUs/product/fm/additional/74/749424.pdf



i haven't timed it, but its very quick 3 or less

specs say less than 3 minutes
specs say 500w will use most disposable cups etc..

Keurig hotel single cup 8oz reservoir

http://goo.gl/xodjmz

Brews One 8-ounce Cup in under Three Minutes, Single-use Water Reservoir
Mug Sensor - No Accidental Spills, No Glass Pots to Clean, Break or Crack
Easy Cleaning and Maintenance
No Coffee Grounds or Wet, Messy Filters
Energy Savings Mode - Automatic On/Off Function
Power: 700 watt