Progressive Dynamics 9260 possible issue

[kincade]

Hoping to solicit a bit of advice from the gurus here. I recently installed a PD 9260 and it seems to do a much better job charging my (2) Trojan T105 batteries. The only issue is, the converter itself seems to stay quite warm, even when in float mode. I expected it to act like this when charging, but it it normal to stay very warm to the touch when in float mode? This would indicate power usage constantly, which is a bit unexpected. I do have the pendant, which is off except for a blink every 10 seconds or so when in float.

Thanks for any advice you can give,

[tenbear]

bigfootford wrote:
If your battery minder does not go into boost mode every day or so I would not use it for storage.

Jim

The Battery Minder uses full-time automatic high frequency pulse desulfation. I have no idea how effective this is.

[bigfootford]

kincade wrote:
Ok, after running the trailer on my Kill A Watt for 2 days, here are the draws I see:

Wattage fluctuates between 16.5 and 17.9W
.29 A
.47 PF
34.7 V/A
at. $.11/KW, it's costing me about 16.38/yr to maintain the batteries. Not a huge expense, but it might be worth using the battery minder during the winter to cut down on electrical usage.

When I put a larger appliance on, the PF goes up to .99 (fridge, etc).

Thanks for all the advice in this thread, I sincerely appreciate it!

So our Progressive Dynamics are quite close at idle/float.

Watts vary between 15-20
Amps varried a bit... .19 - .26

If your battery minder does not go into boost mode every day or so I would not use it for storage.

Jim

[kincade]

Ok, after running the trailer on my Kill A Watt for 2 days, here are the draws I see:

Wattage fluctuates between 16.5 and 17.9W
.29 A
.47 PF
34.7 V/A
at. $.11/KW, it's costing me about 16.38/yr to maintain the batteries. Not a huge expense, but it might be worth using the battery minder during the winter to cut down on electrical usage.

When I put a larger appliance on, the PF goes up to .99 (fridge, etc).

Thanks for all the advice in this thread, I sincerely appreciate it!

[Wayne_Dohnal]

More info for comparison. My 9160A with zero load on the output draws 10 watts from the power line. With a 1 amp load, the AC power draw goes up to 25 watts, 13.6 into the battery and 11.4 going up as heat from the converter. After pushing that 1 amp for a few hours, the converter case and heat sink are at about 90 degrees, with the compartment temp at 70 degrees (measured with an infrared "point and shoot" thermometer).

[bigfootford]

To verify that my KWmeter is working I did a standalone test with a 60 watt bulb.

.48 amps

57.9 watts

119.8vac

So the math for a bulb is .48X119.8 is 57.5 watts... Thats close enough to say the meter is working pretty good.

Interesting that the PD plays a bit with the readings of the KWmeter.

Jim

[bigfootford]

kincade wrote:
Thanks again for all of the great information - it sounds like this has sparked a great conversation. I'll put my kill a watt on mine this weekend and report back on the consumption (which I probably should have done first).

Bigfoot - doesn't a 20 watt continuous pull sound high for a converter that shouldn't be working or charging?

There is always a trickle charge at 13.2 sleep mode... from the PD.

I see about .05 dc amps going into the batteries...

Jim

[bigfootford]

Salvo wrote:
I'm trying to understand your measurement: 0.3amps/20 W.

Are both measurements from the Kill-A-Watt?

0.3A * 120V = 36W; not 20W.

Is the difference in wattage due to the power factor? Is the power factor 20W/36W = 0.55 (at no load)?

What does the electric company charge you; 20W or 36W rate?

bigfootford wrote:

Only thing running is my CO and LP sensors...

.3 amps/20watts...=480watts a day. So every 2 days or so a Kw is used.

I took the national average for KWH charge which is about $.122 and rounded it to .12.
My average is about .13.

The PF reading on my Kwmeter reads in the .56- .58 range.

Reconnected the meter and let things set a bit..

Watts vary between 15-20
Voltage varries a bit 117-120...
Amps varried a bit... .19 - .26

The source of AC is from the main to our pool pumps, then 10 ga for 40 ft and a 20ft 12 ga extension. So this is not a perfect source of AC...



Jim

[Salvo]

I'm trying to understand your measurement: 0.3amps/20 W.

Are both measurements from the Kill-A-Watt?

0.3A * 120V = 36W; not 20W.

Is the difference in wattage due to the power factor? Is the power factor 20W/36W = 0.55 (at no load)?

What does the electric company charge you; 20W or 36W rate?

bigfootford wrote:

Only thing running is my CO and LP sensors...

.3 amps/20watts...=480watts a day. So every 2 days or so a Kw is used.

[time2roll]

20w at idle would seem low to me. But I have never measured.

.3a x 120v = 36 watts.... how does that reconcile?

[kincade]

Thanks again for all of the great information - it sounds like this has sparked a great conversation. I'll put my kill a watt on mine this weekend and report back on the consumption (which I probably should have done first).

Bigfoot - doesn't a 20 watt continuous pull sound high for a converter that shouldn't be working or charging?

[bigfootford]

Just checked my 8 year old 9260, my batteries are fully charged.

Used a Killowatt meter.

Only thing running is my CO and LP sensors...

.3 amps/20watts...=480watts a day. So every 2 days or so a Kw is used.

So if my average KWH cost is $.12 then my monthly cost would be around $1.80... That I will not worry about.

Have to consider the 15 min of boost every 20hrs too into that equation also.



In float mode, 13.2vdc there still will be some current flow into the batteries so I consider these readings within tolerance..

[tenbear]

I checked the AC ammeter in my 120v line and with the Battery Minder on it read 00.1A. I unplugged the Battery Minder and it still read 00.1A. In both cases the battery ammeter reads -00.0A. I have now turned on the PD and when it gets to the point that it feels the battery is fully charged I will check the ammeter again. The battery is disconnected using the OEM battery disconnect switch.

[RJsfishin]

Yes, I have an old tube/transformer radio that I turn on whenever I need some heat in the house,.....
But is this explaining why the PD is getting warm, or why it shouldn't be ?

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
As a simplified example I have an 8 lb transformer that is used as a 6-volt power supply for a carbon rod soldering station.

I plug in the transformer and note a 9 watt load even though the transformer is just sitting there grinning at me.

After an hour or so, the lamination's (the heavy square mass of steel wafers) has grown uncomfortably warm. I wouldn't want to have to fondle the transformer for very long.

This is yet another reason why I like those switching power supplies. They are far more efficient than a transformer type AC/DC circuit.

But to bring up another point, how angry does the converter get when the whip is put to it? Excessive heat is death to electronics. Whenever I tinker I read electronic component data sheets and wince. A 100 amp gizmo may be de-rated to 10 amperes max at higher temps.

My hearing has gone the way of crank handle starting, so fan noise is not a big issue with me. My gizmo projects usually whistle with F5 on the saffer simpson scale wind velocity. Absurdly huge heat sinks. I am a true cheapskate.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

As a simplified example I have an 8 lb transformer that is used as a 6-volt power supply for a carbon rod soldering station.

I plug in the transformer and note a 9 watt load even though the transformer is just sitting there grinning at me.

After an hour or so, the lamination's (the heavy square mass of steel wafers) has grown uncomfortably warm. I wouldn't want to have to fondle the transformer for very long.

This is yet another reason why I like those switching power supplies. They are far more efficient than a transformer type AC/DC circuit.

But to bring up another point, how angry does the converter get when the whip is put to it? Excessive heat is death to electronics. Whenever I tinker I read electronic component data sheets and wince. A 100 amp gizmo may be de-rated to 10 amperes max at higher temps.

My hearing has gone the way of crank handle starting, so fan noise is not a big issue with me. My gizmo projects usually whistle with F5 on the saffer simpson scale wind velocity. Absurdly huge heat sinks. I am a true cheapskate.