Rad Flush - antifreeze question

[MarkLDN]

Winter is coming and don't ask but I am in the midst of a thorough radiator flush and hose replacement. The chemical cleaner I am using suggests driving the for 3-6 hours over a few days to allow the product to work. Temperatures are at and slightly below freezing. I am at the point where I have added the bottle of cleaner and topped up the radiator with water. I also cut the water with washer fluid antifreeze in order to provide freeze protection over the next few days while I wait for the cleaner to work. Can anyone foresee any issues with this approach? Dont want my rad freezing up!

I intend to fully flush with water and fill with proper coolant after the job is done.

Thanks

[MarkLDN]

Right. Something has gone wrong.

I put a final topoff in the radiator, capped it and warmed up the engine. I then took it for a slow 20km/hr drive around the block and the engine died on me after about 300 meters. It restarted and after getting it back to the hose the temp gauge was past the midpoint and steam was coming out of the hood. It was coming from the radiator. Other symptoms are a new squealing sound (sounds very similar to a dying water pump on www.mycarmakesnoise.com). Also the hoses seemed abnormally hot to touch, but the bottom rad hose was just warm (which I guess makes sense). Also I noticed a tiny bit of coolant coming out of the plug fitting (see photo, plug is located between the heater hose and upper rad hose; it's not significant, just a little seepage. The dampness you see above it in the recess on the engine is just water collected from the flushing process).

It seems to indicate a dying water pump but the water pump was doing fine before all this. We drove 9000 miles and never overheated once. Temp gauge only approached midway when going up hill. My only other hunch is that the new thermostat is possibly failing and/or only opening up halfway.

Westend! What do you think?

[Gjac]

MarkLDN wrote:
Wondering where best to place the hose to flush that part of the engine block out.

. What I do is remove the lower hose from the radiator, remove the thermostat and reinstall the housing then insert a garden hose into the lower hose and force water though the entire system. I made a section of hose that fits tightly into the radiator hose then clamp with a hose clamp. By removing the thermostat you allow water to pass through the block. I also set the dash to heat to flush out heater core. When I first did this after using the Prestone Flush I was amazed at how much more stuff came out of the system.

[MarkLDN]

Great to hear I am on the right track! We bought this 1978 Dodge campervan to do a small tour of the western US and sadly now need to sell the van so I want it in tip top shape for the new owner. I had no knowledge of automotive maintenance and repair before this but these last few months have been an education! And I love it! So much satisfaction when you tighten that last bolt and the thing still starts!

Really appreciate all your time!

[westend]

MarkLDN wrote:
Haha Complete Novice.

I have my Haynes manual to hand and have consulted numerous forums (such as this one) on how to conduct a thorough flush. Though I get nervous when something doesn't go to plan, or something unexpected happens. The last thing I want to do is break something and have to take it to the shop. The whole reason I am doing it myself is to save on shop labour (currently off work so plenty of free time).

The reason for the flush is that I noticed a drop in my coolant level and saw indications of a leak. As I had to drain the system anyway I wanted to give it a proper flush/chem clean and put new coolant in. Replaced the thermostat while I was at it. So the answer is I am probably paranoid because nothing was wrong with the system before I took it all apart.

Putting new coolant in now very slowly. The reason I dont think the thermostat is opening is because I can normally see the coolant flow towards the upper rad hose (through the open cap) and feel the hose itself get hot. Only hoses that are getting hot are the heater core hoses at the moment.

I have topped it up with 3 gallons and currently letting it cool to try a final fill up before putting the cap on and taking it for a test drive.

Very much appreciate your words of wisdom and patience with my posts!

Mark

Mark,
I applaud your efforts to get the Haynes manual and work your way through the flush process. I have customers that want to maintain their equipment and vehicles. I tell every one of them to buy a Haynes manual and do some reading before breaking out the tools.

The manuals can be worded towards a more generic instruction set so some vehicles that have inherent air entrapment need to be treated differently than those with common cooling systems. I have a BMW, for instance, that is somewhat difficult to get the air out of the head and upper coolant plumbing. My Ford truck is totally different. Pour in antifreeze and go with the truck. Your van is probably more alike to the truck.

You may not feel the upper radiator hose getting extremely warm right away. You will definitely know with a test drive if your system is full and the thermostat is opening. Without a full system, the van engine will get very hot, even overheat. Don't worry about it if you have filled the radiator a couple of times. Any trapped air will be expunged by the water pump and your system should be full.

Good luck with your radiator.

[MarkLDN]

Haha Complete Novice.

I have my Haynes manual to hand and have consulted numerous forums (such as this one) on how to conduct a thorough flush. Though I get nervous when something doesn't go to plan, or something unexpected happens. The last thing I want to do is break something and have to take it to the shop. The whole reason I am doing it myself is to save on shop labour (currently off work so plenty of free time).

The reason for the flush is that I noticed a drop in my coolant level and saw indications of a leak. As I had to drain the system anyway I wanted to give it a proper flush/chem clean and put new coolant in. Replaced the thermostat while I was at it. So the answer is I am probably paranoid because nothing was wrong with the system before I took it all apart.

Putting new coolant in now very slowly. The reason I dont think the thermostat is opening is because I can normally see the coolant flow towards the upper rad hose (through the open cap) and feel the hose itself get hot. Only hoses that are getting hot are the heater core hoses at the moment.

I have topped it up with 3 gallons and currently letting it cool to try a final fill up before putting the cap on and taking it for a test drive.

Very much appreciate your words of wisdom and patience with my posts!

Mark

[westend]

MarkLDN wrote:

westend wrote:
Some vehicles will have a "T" in the upper heater hose to eliminate air. Some vehicles have an expansion reservoir that is plumbed into either the radiator cap or a fitting on top of the radiator. That plumbing to the reservoir acts as an air eliminator. Any opening on the top of the radiator will eliminate air in the cooling system. IOW, leave the cap loose.

Ah okay yeah it has a reservoir with a hose connected to the radiator cap.

I've done the hose squeeze after warming up, cap off, thermostat opened. However alarmed when I turned the engine off and water shot out of the radiator.

Let engine cool a bit and added more water. Warmed engine. This time thermostat didnt seem to want to open. Then water started shooting out again and I immediately shut the engine off. Seems quite hot. Steam was coming off exhaust manifold from splashes. Getting worried!

Stop and think about this for a minute. How did the water get hot while just sitting in the radiator or the connected hoses? It didn't.

It takes a running engine to heat the coolant and the coolant doesn't flow into the radiator until the thermostat opens. Opening temp is probably around 190f or better. That is just shy of boiling point and some of that coolant may be above that temperature.

I'd suggest that you now fill the system with antifreeze, start engine with cap on and allow to cool. Make sure any valves to heater core are open. Remove cap when radiator cap is cool enough to open and top off the system with antifreeze. Fill your reservoir to the correct level.

I don't know your level of experience but it sounds like there is a lot of over-thinking about this whole process. What is the reason behind all this flushing and filling?

[rhagfo]

MarkLDN wrote:
Trying to figure out how to bleed air out. Is this the bleed valve at the top? Seems too big. And not actually on top.

Sorry to say, but your radiator looks like it is due for replacement. Then I need to ask, what is it in, been a long tome since I have seen a brass tank on a radatior.

[MarkLDN]

westend wrote:
Some vehicles will have a "T" in the upper heater hose to eliminate air. Some vehicles have an expansion reservoir that is plumbed into either the radiator cap or a fitting on top of the radiator. That plumbing to the reservoir acts as an air eliminator. Any opening on the top of the radiator will eliminate air in the cooling system. IOW, leave the cap loose.

Ah okay yeah it has a reservoir with a hose connected to the radiator cap.

I've done the hose squeeze after warming up, cap off, thermostat opened. However alarmed when I turned the engine off and water shot out of the radiator.

Let engine cool a bit and added more water. Warmed engine. This time thermostat didnt seem to want to open. Then water started shooting out again and I immediately shut the engine off. Seems quite hot. Steam was coming off exhaust manifold from splashes. Getting worried!

[westend]

Some vehicles will have a "T" in the upper heater hose to eliminate air. Some vehicles have an expansion reservoir that is plumbed into either the radiator cap or a fitting on top of the radiator. That plumbing to the reservoir acts as an air eliminator. Any opening on the top of the radiator will eliminate air in the cooling system. IOW, leave the cap loose.

[MarkLDN]

Trying to figure out how to bleed air out. Is this the bleed valve at the top? Seems too big. And not actually on top.

[MarkLDN]

Great looking product MD! Sadly too expensive for my situation. Would totally put the money down if I werent selling the van in the spring.

[SaltiDawg]

MarkLDN wrote:
...

I read that a clever idea was to replace the plugs with radiator petcocks for easy draining next time but I will forgoe this switch as petcocks can only be tightened with a normal open headed wrench and that seems like it would be an impossible fit. Also scared three petcocks in my cooling system increased risk of one of them opening due to vibration. Socket is my only hope. So will clean the plugs as best I can and install with thread tape.

Mark,

Take a look at the Fumoto Valves drains - most use for oil drain, but will apparently work for coolant drain. Can be tightened with Vise Grips, open end wrench, Cresent wrench, etc. Not going to vibrate open.

I use on oil drain on my portable generator.

Here is one discussion of using in a coolant application.

Discussionof Fumoto For Coolant

[MarkLDN]

I successfully removed the final drain plug by tapping with a hammer and chisel lightly on one side (only side I could access) and then positioning my socket, arm and body for maximum leverage and applied steady pressure. Voila!

I am currently cleaning the plugs in coca cola (only thing I had other than WD40!).

I read that a clever idea was to replace the plugs with radiator petcocks for easy draining next time but I will forgoe this switch as petcocks can only be tightened with a normal open headed wrench and that seems like it would be an impossible fit. Also scared three petcocks in my coolin system increased risk of one of them opening due to vibration. Socket is my only hope. So will clean the plugs as best I can and install with thread tape.

[MarkLDN]

Found some good tips on this post http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c1-and-c2-corvettes/3402767-engine-block-drain-plug-broken.html

[MarkLDN]

Wondering where best to place the hose to flush that part of the engine block out.