Should I upgrade to a Magnum 3012RV inverter/charger

[Groover]

My coach came with a Magnum 2012 modified sine wave inverter charger which for the most part has worked well but my microwave oven makes terrible noises when running off of it and I would like to be able run an air conditioner occasionally without starting the generator.

The 3012RV hybrid unit seems like it should solve both issues but I saw a recent thread about issues starting an AC on this inverter. There was a comment that Magnum does not recommend powering an AC with the 3012 but I haven't been able to find anything in the manual to support that.

When comparing the specs between my 2012 and the 3012 hybrid it appears that the 3012 is less efficient but I am not sure how big of problem that actually is.

I have been told that Victron makes better charger inverters than Magnum but I like the idea that the 3012 appears to be a bolt in direct replacement for my existing unit. I am hesitant to tackle the job of wiring in a different brand, especially wiring the remote control for it. Maybe the control cable is an industry standard and can be re-used for a Victron?

I have already upgraded my batteries to 640 amp hours of lithium iron batteries that are capable of a 1C discharge rate so that shouldn't be an issue.

Any informed thoughts from someone with experience?

[3_tons]

Regardless of inverter’s settings, Qualifying generator power (honda 2200i) while in eco mode was pretty much a no-go for my pass-thru Pro-sine 2.0 (non-hybrid) inverter, and caused me so much consternation that I ended up simply bypassing inverter output by adding another corded ATS switch just ahead of the air conditioner… New ATS defaults to generator (this corded ATS for ‘eco-mode’ only), otherwise 11kbtu air conditioner (with soft-start) will run without a hitch supplied by pass-thru inverter, shore or generator (in regular generator mode)…

What’s most interesting is that when off-grid, the inverter will run everything EXCEPT the air conditioner, while simultaneously the genny (via corded ATS) gets dedicated for the air conditioner only - if it happens to run outta gas, the ATS switches to allow the inverter to seamlessly take over the air conditioner load as well as the other loads…

3 tons

[MNRon]

Groover - given you have soft starts and an onboard 6kW generator, I doubt you would experience the AC generator-inverter pass through power I faced; I’m pretty sure that either the Magnum or Victron will fill your need. If you desire the easy swap out from your current 2012 to a 3012 I wouldn’t be afraid of it, and you will certainly like the boost capability if you camp with 30A hookups very much. Not to recommend against the Magnum, but just to complicate your decision making 🙂 Victron has a really cool GUI that I like for power management visibility, but they’re pretty proud of it (costs quite a bit more than Magnums ARC controller) - as pianotuna says, the Victron and Magnum will both have similar performance.

[pianotuna]

The Magnum is 3000 VA just as is the Victron. Outback has a sealed unit that is 2800 VA and a vented model that is iirc 3000 VA.

[Groover]

MNRon wrote:
Groover - You might be referring to a thread or two I had earlier this year regarding a Magnum 3012 hybrid inverter and AC. To summarize what I've learned:
1 - Magnum 3012 hybrid is GREAT for augmenting power when you're on 30A shore
2 - Magnum 3012 hybrid is a good, solid inverter
3 - Magnum 3012 will support heavy loads well, but extended drawing hundreds of amps WILL heat things up and shouldn't be done. A few minutes for a microwave, hair dryer, etc isn't an issue. The Magnum will easily start my AC (without soft-starts) but you pull hundreds of Amps and cabling etc heat up if you do that very long
4 - The issue I experienced with the Magnum and AC's was not when running from the inverter, or shore power, but the Magnum power-qualifing circuitry will not reliably pass through portable generator power because of the generator's inability to keep voltage up cleanly at AC start. By playing around with various settings etc I was able to fairly reliably power one 15k AC from a Westinghouse i4500 at about 5000 elevation when it was 100+ outside without a softstart. With that said, I've ordered a micro-air so that it's not so fussy in the future.
5 - Regarding the AC issue with pass-through power from a generator: Magnum's "best" advice on this is to use a generator at least twice the inverter capability (ie - 6.5k genny with a 3012 - NOT HELPFUL). My understanding is that the Victron unit has a 'lock out' setting you can use when just passing power through so that it's qualification circuitry doesn't get in the way, I don't have first hand knowledge on this though.

Depending on your usage, upgrading the Magnum may, or may not, be a good idea. I upgraded from a Magnum 2800 and am glad I did for the hybrid capability. I would NOT plan on running an AC from 12v power due to the high current load. The generator interaction issue has been frustrating, if I had to do it over I'd look hard at the Victron but am not sorry with the setup I have.

Thanks to you and several others for the good information.

The ability to run on a 30A (or less) circuit or even intermittently from the battery is what I am looking for. My coach has 6000W Onan inverter generator built in which I will crank up if I expect to need the air conditioner more than 20 minutes or so. I do already have a soft start on the air conditioner that I would be using. To run both AC units I would definitely crank the generator.

The Victron unit does not appear to be able to put out 3000W, especially in warmer weather. That would leave me a bit concerned.

Victron specs

[pianotuna]

Interesting that my 3012 puts out 127 before it rolls over. I wonder if the temperature had anything to do with that. It was below freezing--but I did not note the actual conditions.

[Itinerant1]

Are you sure it was 150a+, 125a is max or atleast I ever saw.

[Ivylog]

I’ve had both…2012 & 3012 and the 3012 is heads and shoulders above. You are lucky to get 65 amps charging from a 2012 on generator power while my 3012 cranks out 150+ amps.
I don’t understand running AC off of batteries when a generator will do it easily plus charge the batteries. YES it can be done but at some point you have to recharge the batterie’s either with lots of solar $$$ or a generator/alternator.
Using the engine alternator to run a AC that draws 14 amps AC… 170A DC is going to overheat it and the inverter. Anytime I’m using a high amp item, I crank the generator unless quite hours prohibit.

[pianotuna]

The 3012 tops out at 127 amps of dc charging (nominally 12 volts). After that, it falls over.

I think may be an indication the charger design was intended to work well with a 15 amp shore power supply.

[2oldman]

MNRon wrote:
3 - Magnum 3012 will support heavy loads well, but extended drawing hundreds of amps WILL heat things up and shouldn't be done. A few minutes for a microwave, hair dryer, etc isn't an issue. The Magnum will easily start my AC (without soft-starts) but you pull hundreds of Amps and cabling etc heat up if you do that very long.

This was my experience also in my lead -acid 12v days.

My cabling was all 4/0, big beefy connectors, no shortcuts on any of it. But after maybe 3-5 minutes of microwave use, or especially a/c, things started getting hot, including the batteries themselves. That was the time I decided to up the voltage so I didn't have hundreds of amps to deal with.

[Itinerant1]

Maybe placement of the unit makes a difference. I've run the microwave drawing near 150a plus my other misc loads nearing 165-175a for 45 minute. This past spring, summer daily running the 15k A/C unit for 3 hours off of solar/ batteries then switching over to the eu2200i for many hours after that. I do leave the top portion of my front compartment open to vent the hot air out from the inverter.

My personal experience with 1,883 days of boondocking use has been great with Magnum equipment especially after adding the easy start to the air conditioner. Even charging the batteries is easy with the eu2200i, set the incoming loadshare to 15a and the batteries are charging at 100a. SOC right now is 38% in 3 hours 60% will be replaced in the batteries for 98% SOC maybe tomorrow will be a better solar production day.

[pianotuna]

Groover,

I sent you a private message.

[MNRon]

Groover - You might be referring to a thread or two I had earlier this year regarding a Magnum 3012 hybrid inverter and AC. To summarize what I've learned:
1 - Magnum 3012 hybrid is GREAT for augmenting power when you're on 30A shore
2 - Magnum 3012 hybrid is a good, solid inverter
3 - Magnum 3012 will support heavy loads well, but extended drawing hundreds of amps WILL heat things up and shouldn't be done. A few minutes for a microwave, hair dryer, etc isn't an issue. The Magnum will easily start my AC (without soft-starts) but you pull hundreds of Amps and cabling etc heat up if you do that very long
4 - The issue I experienced with the Magnum and AC's was not when running from the inverter, or shore power, but the Magnum power-qualifing circuitry will not reliably pass through portable generator power because of the generator's inability to keep voltage up cleanly at AC start. By playing around with various settings etc I was able to fairly reliably power one 15k AC from a Westinghouse i4500 at about 5000 elevation when it was 100+ outside without a softstart. With that said, I've ordered a micro-air so that it's not so fussy in the future.
5 - Regarding the AC issue with pass-through power from a generator: Magnum's "best" advice on this is to use a generator at least twice the inverter capability (ie - 6.5k genny with a 3012 - NOT HELPFUL). My understanding is that the Victron unit has a 'lock out' setting you can use when just passing power through so that it's qualification circuitry doesn't get in the way, I don't have first hand knowledge on this though.

Depending on your usage, upgrading the Magnum may, or may not, be a good idea. I upgraded from a Magnum 2800 and am glad I did for the hybrid capability. I would NOT plan on running an AC from 12v power due to the high current load. The generator interaction issue has been frustrating, if I had to do it over I'd look hard at the Victron but am not sorry with the setup I have.

[pianotuna]

When my 3012 Magnum burned up I was told by the tech support folks that they did not recommend powering an air conditioner with the unit. They suggested the 4024 (iirc).

The issue was simple. The cooling fans require 120 volts to operate. I do not know if that is the control circuit or the fans themselves. So after running a heavy load do NOT turn off the inverter. My RV has scorch marks on the wall above where the inverter lives.

They did replace it, as it was under warranty.

I'd recommend Victron or Outback.

I'd recommend jumping to 24 or 48 volts.

[time2roll]

I can't imagine the 3012 will have any issues running the air or microwave unless you create some odd extreme issue.
Air could be an issue depending if there is a good start cap already in place. No harm to try once and see. Will need a significant battery full on charge to run more than an hour.