SiO2 Battery -UPDATE 5 (Two Batts)

[BFL13]

Updates 22 Oct, 8 Nov, 10 Nov (photo), 14 Nov, 15 Dec

http://azimuthsolar.ca/product/12v-100ah-sio2-battery/

Mostly PT has given info on these over several posts in several threads, but I have lost track where.

What are the main pros and cons for this battery again? I might actually have a use for one! What amps draw can a single 100 stand for how long--5 minutes of MW at 100 amps? Left in a hard to access place and no worries? Can float voltage be too high or too low?

(AGMs do not stand up for what I am wanting to do--BTDT 😞 )

Thanks

[pianotuna]

Hi BFL13,

I've corrected my posts to reflect your information.

Was there a reason for 19% instead of 25% for the charging rate?

Were you charging at 14.6 volts?

[BFL13]

PT, mine didn't do that. See my test results way back in this thread. Amps started to taper at 87.5% SOC with a 19% charging rate. So charging was only "faster" between about 77-87%. from 50-77 is was the same time at constant 19 amps.

Some of the blurbs say you can charge at 3C for a limited period with no harm but the "standard" is 25% charging rate as the limit. I can't find any info on how long that 3C would be, so I don't dare try over the 25%

I suspect if you hit it with 3C, amps would taper quickly down to what the battery would accept, same as with any battery. Probably accepts more amps with a lower SOC same as other batteries too. No data seen on that.

You can go down to 20% SOC (or lower) though, so that lets you do a 20-90 instead of a 50-90 or a 50-80. That means your gen time is not being wasted by amps tapering while restoring 70% instead of just 40 or 30 % with no tapering.

--On price-- Azimuth is selling the 27 size 100AH at $628Can (also their US site says $449 US--which is lower at 75 cents conversion) but they have all sorts of sizes and prices.

http://www.azimuthsolar.ca/product-category/batteries/sio2/

I can get two 6s at Can Tire (they are East Penn GC15s 230 AH--an excellent 6) for just under $400 with tax, no shipping. That is nearly $300 less than the SiO2 with tax and shipping.

It could be worse --check out what Lis cost! (Way more)

Have to wait for the BC govt buy my vote money to show up or else win the Lotto I guess.

[pianotuna]

3 tons,

SiO2 charge much faster than traditional Lead Acid. For example, at 85% state of charge the acceptance rate for a 100 amp-hour lead acid is 12.5 amps. correction in BFL13 see his real life figures.

[pianotuna]

StirCrazy,

Price was wrong.

[StirCrazy]

BFL13 wrote:

I would rather get the second SiO2 than more 6s, but it is more money. In this case, whatever the price diff would be for the SiO2 vs the two 6s, so not the whole price of the SiO2 like last time.

I am not sure if you ever mentioned itbut what do the SiO2 batteries run pricewise?

Steve

[BFL13]

No the charge rates are not a factor. Also in the TC the SiO2 is by itself and only runs the inverter. The two 6s do all the usual 12v stuff. If I had two SiO2s they would be in parallel and run everything.

The two 6s down to 50% make 115AH while two SiO2s down to 20% would make 160AH. That is with comparable 20 hr rates 11.5 amps vs 10 amps. So the two would be as good as having one on inverter and the two 6s on the rest for operating when the inverter AH are 45 or less. (At 65 amps MW, 45 AH is 41 minutes.)

The problem is cost. Two more 6s would be much less cost than one more SiO2, even with the current sale price. The one SiO2 has already solved my inverter problem with the TC, so a second one would be just for convenience, not a real need. Have to figure out my priorities!

[3_tons]

BFL13 wrote:
The latest is that camping in the MH with just two 6s last week was unsat. Needs four 6s. Had to run the gen every day and was losing. Usage was 80AH per day, and a 50-80 recharge by generator is 30% of 230AH, or 69AH.

Meanwhile the SiO2 is in the TC with the other two 6s that came from the MH. So The fix is to get another two 6s-- or for more money, another single SiO2 for the TC.

That would be 200AH of SiO2, so I could use the 55 amp converter ok, and the one TC solar set would be on them too. Right now it is on the two 6s, no solar for the SiO2. It would also free up that compartment in the TC for stuff.

I would rather get the second SiO2 than more 6s, but it is more money. In this case, whatever the price diff would be for the SiO2 vs the two 6s, so not the whole price of the SiO2 like last time. Not sure which way I will go. No hurry. The way the TC is now works great, but it would be just as good or better with two SiO2s and put the 6s back in the MH.

1) I would wonder how much of this has to do with the purported slower charge rate of Sio2 - could this be a factor?

2) Does mixing 6v’s with SiO2 cause a battery type recharge imbalance?

Just curious...

3 tons

[noteven]

noteven's 12volt Life for Dummies Rule No. 3: Canuck camper who has thin blanket and not enough amp hours for heating will get cold.

[BFL13]

The latest is that camping in the MH with just two 6s last week was unsat. Needs four 6s. Had to run the gen every day and was losing. Usage was 80AH per day, and a 50-80 recharge by generator is 30% of 230AH, or 69AH.

Meanwhile the SiO2 is in the TC with the other two 6s that came from the MH. So The fix is to get another two 6s-- or for more money, another single SiO2 for the TC.

That would be 200AH of SiO2, so I could use the 55 amp converter ok, and the one TC solar set would be on them too. Right now it is on the two 6s, no solar for the SiO2. It would also free up that compartment in the TC for stuff.

I would rather get the second SiO2 than more 6s, but it is more money. In this case, whatever the price diff would be for the SiO2 vs the two 6s, so not the whole price of the SiO2 like last time. Not sure which way I will go. No hurry. The way the TC is now works great, but it would be just as good or better with two SiO2s and put the 6s back in the MH.

[BFL13]

Last report was that with the wiring zoo before, I got about 30 minutes of microwave time at 65 amps (average) and the inverter alarmed at 11.1 volts with the SiO2 at 60% SOC

With the new set- up (see photo in earlier post) and over 3 days, this inverter was on a lot and the microwave was on for about 20 minutes total, plus minor 120v loads and the inverter on standby.

Battery showing 12.1 on return home, ran inverter and microwave for about 15 minutes till it alarmed at 11.0 v and quit at 10.5v , then voltage bounced back to 11.7, which is 20% SOC on the SiO2.

Very pleased with that! 🙂 I still have room for improvement using fatter wires inverter-battery and to run the inverter's remote on/off switch to inside the camper to reduce wasted battery on standby.

So being able to run the "700w" MW with the single 100AH battery down to 20% is HUGE (IMO). Gives those Li guys some competition there! 🙂

[noteven]

Haven't SiO2 batteries been used for many moons in "serious" applications - medical equipment, remote communications etc. prior to RV use?

[Itinerant1]

The link works for me.

[BFL13]

PT, it has to be because you are stuck in Saskabush! 🙂 Go West, Young Man!

I found it as a "hit" when Googling "C Rates battery" so maybe
your computer will let you do that?

EDIT--was a saying back when, "Even if they were in Heaven, some people would not be satisfied if they heard there was some place farther West!"

[pianotuna]

BFL13,

I still get

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The page you are trying to view cannot be shown because the authenticity of the received data could not be verified.
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Learn more…

[BFL13]

Is the "charging volume" at 110% in the graph at the bottom of this link an indication of CEF?

http://www.siliconebatteries.ca/sp.html