What A Genuine "Surge Supressor" Does For A Living

[MEXICOWANDERER]

http://www.ashleyedison.com/dds/PCEN-H-1P-All.pdf

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Isolation transformer with transverse noise isolation does nothing to suppress transients voltage? With 30db of isolation? It is assumed such a transformer would be used with utility power. I tried to keep this in perspective for folks who really and truly believe an "Autoformer" filters transients as well as corrects for voltage irregularities.

With the arrival of inverter-type generators, the days of seeing >10% THD in line output are over.

Take your handy dandy oscilloscope to a busy RV park in the summer months, and watch the fun and games as air conditioner motor-unloading induced transients change an innocent sine wave in the Creature From The Black Lagoon. Then plug in your autoformer or "surge protector" fire up the scope and see what does not happen.

Ever wonder why RV appliances and electronics have a lot shorter lifespan than home electronics? Go outside. Follow the wires connecting your home's service drop to that transformer high up on the pole. Note the transformer. It's what's missing in an RV park. No not "A" transformer. The park has "A" transformer. What's missing is YOUR OWN transformer.

Better brush up on what a full isolation transformer does for a living. One that has bonded ground as well as hot and neutral. They just do not exist to limit total potential load current...

[wa8yxm]

mlts22 wrote:
I wonder if an online (not standby) UPS would also help.

That is what I call a power line conditioner. Yes, that will take out all spikes, All nasty wave forms, All noise on the line Everything you can imagine and a whole lot of things you can't that are not proper on a power line will be eliminated.

I do that on occasion when there are voltage issues (Turn off the 30 amp breaker that feeds my prosine and leave the OEM converter (an 80 amp model) powering things via the prosine).

The converter can take an overvoltage conditon, or an under voltage (Within limits) and not mind at all (it is rated 110 to 250 volts) and all the delicate stuff is powered via the Prosine. Only resistive loads are left (And the air conditioenrs).


But a transformer will pass the spikes, it may even pass the bad waveforms (noise and such) it does NOTING to filter less it's is a resonate transformer, and in that case efficiency sucks.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:


Shirley you jest...

MW - surprised you didn't reference the "gold standard" source.....

- LPC -

And..... don't call me Shirley!!..:B

.

[mlts22]

I wonder if an online (not standby) UPS would also help. It basically is a converter/battery/inverter, and used to ensure that no matter how grungy the power is on the incoming site, it always puts out a clean sine wave for the protected computers.

The key is an online UPS. A standby UPS doesn't use the batteries at all until the power goes out, then it clicks over. An online always has the batteries in the chain, no matter what.

[wa8yxm]

I hate to tell you this but there are several ways to beat an isolation transformer when it comes to power regulation and clean up, The only way to truly clean it up is to use a 3 module system

Converter----Battery----Inverter (True sine wave)

This outputs pure, clean, Sine wave, power even if what's comming in looks like something the dog dragged home.

An isolation transformer does NOTHING to limit a surge, it just passes it on.

A Ferroresonate transformer or a Varactor (Autotransformer) may do some regulation, but nothing compared to the system I outlined above.

MOV's take out spikes. not surges.

The box I just paid 15 dollars for (And then did some repair work on,, hey, it was me or the garbage can) It does not LIMIT surges, but it sure blocks them.

[LScamper]

From specs:

"Surge Suppression -- TVSS - Protects loads against high-energy Spikes and Transient Voltages."

This is most likely MOVs.

"Response Time -- <1.5mS"

This would be the response time of the saturable reactor control circuit that controls the output voltage.

An isolation transformer will only filter common mode voltages. It will do nothing to reduce differential voltages.

[Chris_Bryant]

And one for a 50 amp rig only weighs 600 pounds, and converts 5% of the power in to heat.
I agree I would call that a power conditioner, not a surge suppressor.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

lightfoot wrote:
And this post has what to do with the RV industry and it's customers?????????

You must have one of those basic model RV's. Ice chest, flashlight, you know....no transistors or integrated circuits.

An isolator transformer versus a surge strip is like comparing the filtering capabilities of a HEPA filter to a cyclone fence.

If electronics are not overloaded, overheated or subjected to the wrong voltage, an isolation transformer can increase the lifespan of solid state components by a factor of two to five hundred percent. Switching power supplies are their own effective filter. But flat panel TV's, microwave controls, stereos, and other electronics benefit greatly from the inclusion of an isolation transformer in the power. But isolation transformers do nothing to correct voltage. Just like autotransformers do nothing to filter bad electricity.

[lightfoot]

And this post has what to do with the RV industry and it's customers?????????

[dkf435]

A transformer for a power conditioner yes but I do not see how that will have the response time for surges and spikes.

David Kb7uns

[MEXICOWANDERER]

MOV's?

Shirley you jest...

This critter uses a full isolation transformer. MOV suppresses about .1% of possible line transients the other suppresses 99.9% of line transients. For electrical noise, hash and other transients, hot-neutral-ground, NOTHING beats an isolation transformer. Couple the transformer to line voltage regulation and you end up with a genuine "Surge Suppressor" not a gimmick.

I posted this solely to give folks an idea of what a genuine surge suppressor does for a living. Stepped voltage correction is one thing but a linear constant regulated voltage is another. An Auto Transformer does not do a damned thing to suppress transient voltages. Using Metal Oxide Varistors and saying they protect electronics is like donning a sweater and claiming it will protect against a dynamite blast.

My post was not intended to try and sell folks on the idea of using a genuine power conditioning device as they are very expensive. One of those "power pedestal boxes" is better than nothing, but to protect electronics, use an isolation transformer downstream from a voltage correction device. Voltage transients EAT silicon components little by little, spike by spike.

[dkf435]

Looks more like a power conditioner then a surge suppressor, where are the MOVs??

David Kb7uns

[pianotuna]

And how many simoleons would such a device cost?

[Executive45]

:h