2021 Ford F-150 hybrid

[colliehauler]

Seen it can tow up to 14,000# and the electric motor can act as a generator producing between 2.4-7.2 kilowatts depending on configuration. Sounds like a good match for RV owners.

[Groover]

jdc1 wrote:
Here's what the big three missed:
They should have built this hybrid like a Chevy Volt/Honda Clarity. But, instead of a gasoline engine, a 2.0 liter diesel generator. See, Clarity's and Volts's are electric vehicles with gasoline generators. The big three could have easily configured a 400hp electric set-up like the Volt/Clarity. The motor in that set-up would last 2-3 times longer than a standard vehicle, not having to do much more than generate electricity. Imagine your truck having 400hp without having to get up to speed or wait for the turbo's to kick in. That's 400hp ALL the time, whenever you need it. No slowing down on 6% grades. Regenerative charging on the way down that same hill. Biased? Yep. I own a couple of hybrids. I know just how wonderful they are. Getting 80mpg from my plug-in Prius is like sipping a fine wine.

It seems that Ford is considering this arrangement.

Ford bed-mount generator range extender patented

[Reisender]

spoon059 wrote:

Reisender wrote:
I don’t see this as being particularly realistic for 1/2 ton owners. Most 1/2 tons I see are pulling 25 foot or smaller travel trailers or equipment trailers weighing 6000 or 7000 pounds. The coming Ford Electric half ton, the Tesla Cybertruck and the Rivian are all electric 1/2 tons that will do the same job with much more power, virtually no maintenance and can be charged at home or at the shop. There are a lot of grocery getter half tons around here but also a lot of contractors. I can’t see a contractor choosing a gasser/hybrid that can’t be plugged in over an electric once 2022 rolls around. The operating costs of the electric would be a small fraction of the operating costs of anything with a tailpipe.

Jmho.

Just another perspective... in the grand scheme of things, very few half ton owners are towing. Of those that tow, they aren't towing very often. Most of the owners are driving it around as a regular commuter car the majority of the time.

Also, a lot of fleet managers are buying half ton trucks. A hybrid gets better mileage (at least on paper) than a traditional truck. If a fleet buys them in 2021, they are likely to buy them in 2022 and beyond, rather than retool their supplies after one model year. Hybrid allows you to fill your fuel tank up and get more miles per day, whereas a plug in electric only is mile or distance limited.

Now, an individual contractor makes decisions differently than a fleet manager would. Around here, most contractors I know aren't driving half ton trucks though. It will be interesting to see how this plays out, but I think its a good thing that we are getting these types of options for trucks. A pure electric wouldn't work for me, because I take longer trips and don't have the time or patience to stop every 300 miles, find a suitable charging station and sit still for hours to charge my truck up for the next days drive. An affordable hybrid that creates necessary power and saves on fuel costs would be a fantastic option. I like the idea that jdc1 had, about a small diesel generator that produces power and is stored in batteries. Not sure if its practical in a 1 ton truck that tows... but it would be cool if it did!

Yah. There will be a market for that kind of thing. I’m not sure it will be big enough for manufacturers to build an assembly line for it. I remember earlier days of doing 500 km at a shot which in this province is a more than 5 hours affair. (Speed limits etc). For us now we are ready for a break after 2.5 or 3 hours. We usually stop 3 times in an 8 hour travel day. Short pee and coffee refill break in the morning, 20 minute sandwich and apple break at lunch and one more short break in the afternoon. We stay at hotels with charging facilities so next morning just rinse and repeat. This is kind of how EV drivers travel. Not for everyone I guess. Our travel day in an EV us no longer than our old grand Cherokee. Electric works well for us this way. We never stop to charge, we just charge while we are stopped. We have never been at a supercharger for more than 20 minutes and usually shorter.

Just a heads up though. You don’t have to go looking for Charge stations. All that is in the cars database. You just navigate to it. The car will display the approximate charge you will have left when you arrive. It’s all quite user friendly.

Cheers.

[spoon059]

js9234 wrote:
Do you ever just stfu? You're anti Ram **** has gotten past the point of annoying. We get it. You can't think straight when you see the word Ram and jizz your pants when you see the words Ford. .

FishOnOne wrote:
Let's hope Ford did a better job on this hybrid than Ram did.

No, he cannot help himself. His entire self worth is derived from the truck that he drives. He has no self control and is narcissistic. Blocking him years ago made my RV.net experience so much more enjoyable... until someone quotes him and I get to see that he has not matured one little bit in all this time.

Give it a shot, you aren't missing much quality content from him and it makes a lot of these truck threads (especially Ram threads) much shorter.

[spoon059]

Reisender wrote:
I don’t see this as being particularly realistic for 1/2 ton owners. Most 1/2 tons I see are pulling 25 foot or smaller travel trailers or equipment trailers weighing 6000 or 7000 pounds. The coming Ford Electric half ton, the Tesla Cybertruck and the Rivian are all electric 1/2 tons that will do the same job with much more power, virtually no maintenance and can be charged at home or at the shop. There are a lot of grocery getter half tons around here but also a lot of contractors. I can’t see a contractor choosing a gasser/hybrid that can’t be plugged in over an electric once 2022 rolls around. The operating costs of the electric would be a small fraction of the operating costs of anything with a tailpipe.

Jmho.

Just another perspective... in the grand scheme of things, very few half ton owners are towing. Of those that tow, they aren't towing very often. Most of the owners are driving it around as a regular commuter car the majority of the time.

Also, a lot of fleet managers are buying half ton trucks. A hybrid gets better mileage (at least on paper) than a traditional truck. If a fleet buys them in 2021, they are likely to buy them in 2022 and beyond, rather than retool their supplies after one model year. Hybrid allows you to fill your fuel tank up and get more miles per day, whereas a plug in electric only is mile or distance limited.

Now, an individual contractor makes decisions differently than a fleet manager would. Around here, most contractors I know aren't driving half ton trucks though. It will be interesting to see how this plays out, but I think its a good thing that we are getting these types of options for trucks. A pure electric wouldn't work for me, because I take longer trips and don't have the time or patience to stop every 300 miles, find a suitable charging station and sit still for hours to charge my truck up for the next days drive. An affordable hybrid that creates necessary power and saves on fuel costs would be a fantastic option. I like the idea that jdc1 had, about a small diesel generator that produces power and is stored in batteries. Not sure if its practical in a 1 ton truck that tows... but it would be cool if it did!

[Groover]

Groover wrote:
"This model is also capable of hauling a 3325 payload"

I will be much more impressed if the payload package is more obtainable and can be combined with the higher towing ratings. It has been almost impossible to get for the last 6 years and required seemingly unrelated compromises if you did special order it.

I just went through pricing out a fully loaded Lariat Crew Cab 4wd with max trailer tow package. I looked at the description of the max trailer tow package and found this comment:
"Includes:
• 3.55 Electronic-locking Rear-Axle (axle is changed to 3.73 Electronic-locking differential if ordered with Heavy-Duty Payload Package)"

Even though I never even saw a box for selecting the 3.73 gears or Heavy Duty Payload Package the summary shows 3.73 gears. It seems that Ford selected that for me. And every option that I could find was allowed!

It seems that Ford has finally gotten serious about equipping the F150 to handle the tongue weight associated with the tow ratings!

And just for comparison, the cost including the hybrid engine was $70,000. The sticker price for my 2016 Lariat was $60,000 so I am looking at about a 16% price increase. Considering inflation along with all of the performance upgrades that seems to be pretty fair.

[valhalla360]

jdc1 wrote:
Here's what the big three missed:
They should have built this hybrid like a Chevy Volt/Honda Clarity. But, instead of a gasoline engine, a 2.0 liter diesel generator. See, Clarity's and Volts's are electric vehicles with gasoline generators. The big three could have easily configured a 400hp electric set-up like the Volt/Clarity. The motor in that set-up would last 2-3 times longer than a standard vehicle, not having to do much more than generate electricity. Imagine your truck having 400hp without having to get up to speed or wait for the turbo's to kick in. That's 400hp ALL the time, whenever you need it. No slowing down on 6% grades. Regenerative charging on the way down that same hill. Biased? Yep. I own a couple of hybrids. I know just how wonderful they are. Getting 80mpg from my plug-in Prius is like sipping a fine wine.

Engine lifespan is rarely an issue with ICE vehicles. It's the body, suspension and interior that fail, so 2-3 times the engine life provides no real benefit.

Also, electric motor HP output is also affected by RPM. You don't have 400hp off the line. They are better at low RPM but HP does ramp up as RPM increases. What is constant (typically) is the max torque is available from zero to max RPM.

For the same vehicle/trailer combinations, you can climb a big grade at the same speed with the same total HP. There may be some efficiency advantages and if it's a gas engine, you may be turning higher RPM...but the wheels don't know where the HP is coming from

[js9234]

Do you ever just stfu? You're anti Ram **** has gotten past the point of annoying. We get it. You can't think straight when you see the word Ram and jizz your pants when you see the words Ford. .

FishOnOne wrote:
Let's hope Ford did a better job on this hybrid than Ram did.

[Reisender]

I always loved the volt concept and thought about buying one. But by the time came to replace one of our vehicles the specs for pure electrics already exceeded our needs so we just bought a pure EV. Obviously GM felt the market for the volt was dwindling as well or they wouldn’t have cancelled it. There are still lots of cases where hybrid cars have a place but as the public and private charging networks continue to grow and improve that market will also decrease. This is quite obvious in countries and regions that have extensive public and private charging networks. I could see a plug in hybrid 1/2 ton with some uses for a few years yet but then become out of date really fast. In 5 or 7 years few people are going to want the hassle of fossil maintenance or gas station visits for cars and half tons.

JMHO

[Groover]

I took a long look at the Clarity a year ago and couldn't make a case for it. The battery was too small to go very far on electricity alone and I figured that I wouldn't save enough on fuel to hassle with plugging it in nearly every day. The gas engine doesn't have much range or great fuel economy.

The Volt has already been shut down.

I like the idea but am inclined to say that those are not the best vehicles to copy.

To get me interested in plugging in a hybrid I would want to see at least a 15kwh battery.

I just recently read an article that claimed that most plug in hybrids never get plugged in because it just isn't worth the hassle to save $1 on fuel.

I am planning to buy a real electric car withing the next 9 months, not one of those.

[jdc1]

Here's what the big three missed:
They should have built this hybrid like a Chevy Volt/Honda Clarity. But, instead of a gasoline engine, a 2.0 liter diesel generator. See, Clarity's and Volts's are electric vehicles with gasoline generators. The big three could have easily configured a 400hp electric set-up like the Volt/Clarity. The motor in that set-up would last 2-3 times longer than a standard vehicle, not having to do much more than generate electricity. Imagine your truck having 400hp without having to get up to speed or wait for the turbo's to kick in. That's 400hp ALL the time, whenever you need it. No slowing down on 6% grades. Regenerative charging on the way down that same hill. Biased? Yep. I own a couple of hybrids. I know just how wonderful they are. Getting 80mpg from my plug-in Prius is like sipping a fine wine.

[Reisender]

I don’t see this as being particularly realistic for 1/2 ton owners. Most 1/2 tons I see are pulling 25 foot or smaller travel trailers or equipment trailers weighing 6000 or 7000 pounds. The coming Ford Electric half ton, the Tesla Cybertruck and the Rivian are all electric 1/2 tons that will do the same job with much more power, virtually no maintenance and can be charged at home or at the shop. There are a lot of grocery getter half tons around here but also a lot of contractors. I can’t see a contractor choosing a gasser/hybrid that can’t be plugged in over an electric once 2022 rolls around. The operating costs of the electric would be a small fraction of the operating costs of anything with a tailpipe.

Jmho.

[Groover]

colliehauler wrote:
Isn't the battery/electric motor more of a temporary boost for like climbing a hill or passing another vehicle?

That is part of my beef with this tiny battery. The battery will probably make a good impact on the EPA mileage test for an empty truck but I would like to have a battery makes an impact when towing a fairly heavy trailer. Also, a mode that enables you to charge or deplete the battery (especially one this small) in anticipation of making a major hill climb or a descent. Batteries also charge slower than they can discharge so your regen will be limited by battery size.

Finally, this truck is advertised for use as a 7.5Kw stationary generator. It doesn't make a lot of sense to have to run an engine this size continuously to supply 2 or 3kw. Put in a big enough battery that you can run the engine awhile at a higher output then shut down for an hour or two.

Finally, there are tax credits available for batteries of 5Kwh so at first they really wouldn't cost the consumer anything. My guess is that Ford is saving those credits for vehicles that will try to compete with Tesla.

[valhalla360]

colliehauler wrote:
Isn't the battery/electric motor more of a temporary boost for like climbing a hill or passing another vehicle?

That's what the discussion is about.

Traditional Hybrids did just that. The battery would give a boost when there was a high power demand such as accelerating from a stop light of climbing a hill. Then when power demand drops, the engine recharges the battery for the next surge. This allows the engine to spend more of it's time at it's most efficient power output improving efficiency.

This truck appears to be a traditional Hybrid. With 1.5kWH of batteries, it can provide about a 25hp boost for about 5 minutes before being fully depleted. That's fine for accelerating from a stop light or passing someone but for any significant hill climb, it will run out of juice long before you get to the top.

With a Plug-In-Hybrid, they put a larger battery bank in but still significantly smaller than a pure battery EV. In normal daily use, you charge at night in your garage. Let's say 20kWH battery bank. When commuting to work (not towing or loaded heavy), you may only average about 60hp output to maintain speed. If you run the math that might give you a 20 mile range under electric alone...then the engine kicks in if you need to go further. The vast majority of miles are short range commuting trips, so if you are 10 miles from work, you will only rarely have the gas engine kick on. (As it nears empty, it can switch to more of a traditional operation using the battery for short boosts to compensate for a smaller gas engine).

As mentioned, a 1.5kWH battery bank might weigh 30lb, so a 20kWH bank would weigh about 400lb, for most users, this wouldn't be a big issue. The downside is PIHs usually use an undersized engine as it's assumed to be relatively rare to operate in gas mode only.

I think Ford is caught in a marketing dilemma. Big HP and towing numbers sell but honestly, who's really buying a 1/2 ton truck to tow 14,000lb. A 5000lb tow rating truck that is able to get 95% of it's miles under electric power, would be far more useful to most buyers but now you have to convince the buyers, they don't need huge HP/Towing numbers.

[colliehauler]

Isn't the battery/electric motor more of a temporary boost for like climbing a hill or passing another vehicle?