2021 Ram 3500 H.O.

[ib516]

1075 tq and 37,100# towing.

Video

[4x4ord]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
"I mean what’s your opinion about the Cummins that’s 370/850? I’m thinking with 4.10’s that combo will be just awesome for loads under 25k."

My 15 DRW/AISIN is a measly 385/865 and it moves my combined 35k double tow load just fine all across the West Coast. Trans nor engine ever gets hot even in 100 degree weather pulling long 6% grades.

That is a cool pic. I am not certain how the ECM determines when to defuel to keep your engine from melting down but my suspicion is that your not making 385 hp on a 100 degree day pulling a long steep grade. Shiner can probably set me straight here.

I think safe temperatures are controlled based on things like charge air temp, boost pressure, rpm and the amount of fuel being injected. (Basically EGT can be calculated without being directly measured). So it is likely that defueling occurs based on indirectly measured EGTs. Because the engine defuels on long hard pulls in hot weather the radiator is not being taxed the way it would if the engine was able to put out its full power all the way up the hill. I would be very interested in knowing what it takes to get these trucks to defuel on a long hard pull in 100 degree heat. I think when our pickups defuel it might not be that apparent ...we don’t feel a sudden power loss ... rather the power tapers off. (Im not aware of a time that my pickup defueled but then I’ve never pulled a long steep hill in 100 degree temps)

I’ve never witnessed my Peterbilt defuel on account of EGTs ... The 15 litre engine will put out 550 hp and pull like a freight train until the coolant gets hot. At 220 degrees a red light comes on but there is no reduction in power. I believe it’s 230 degrees where the engine light comes on and the power is suddenly and severely backed off till the coolant drops back down to 220. (It very seldom happens that 230 degrees is reached but 220 is fairly common)

[Me_Again]

Again, I repeat. Edelbrock holds a patent on technology to keep a roller cam follower from turning in the lifter bore and Bosch refused to pay them to use it.

[blofgren]

4x4ord wrote:
I don’t blame you, however pump failures are less common in Canada. I think our fuel must provide a little better lubricity. I think I’ll buy what I want based on price and take my chances on the pump. In the unlikely event that my pump fails I’ll hope it’s cornered under warranty,

I think when you're trading trucks every 3-4 years, buy what you want and don't worry about it. I plan on keeping my truck for a very long time so reliability was up near the top of my list of criteria when shopping.

[MikeRP]

I think, but not sure and I didn’t ask him, but PD Diesel over on YouTube substituted a CP3 in a truck he was experiencing issues with and has experienced no issues. I got the impression that he didn’t do any changes. Just substituted the CP3 for the CP4.2.

I don’t have time to run it down right now but I’m sure one of you can ask him.

[4x4ord]

ShinerBock wrote:
I will say that the Denso HP3 and HP4 pumps are not without their flaws either. We have had some failures on them as well in the Hino(Toyota) medium duty diesel trucks. There are even a few TSB's out for them. The reason why most probably don't here about them is because Denso does not have that big of a market share especially in the personal vehicle market. Even on the commercial side, diesels powered by Denso fuel systems is very small.

I think people need to understand that these pumps are pumping at very high pressures. Just as with horsepower, the higher you go, the likelihood of component failure increases as well. For all you wanting and bragging about more stock short burst power, this is what you get because the manufacturers have to increase pressure every time they have a major power increase in order to stay emissions legal. You can't have your cake and eat it too. As with VG turbos and other components, you are starting to sacrifice reliability for the pursuit of more power on engines that also have to meet emissions.

Hence the reason why I would rather the engine makes have lower power, but use more reliable parts. I can easily add power after the fact that will make the truck more reliable by ditching things like electronically controlled VG turbos and so on that are less reliable than their mechanical counterparts.

It seems as though when they go lower power they use a smaller block and then the same VG turbos and CP 4.2 pumps anyway. I think someone offers a kit to put a CP3 on the new Cummins that doesn't require any tuning. They must do something to the pump to boost the pressure to the identical level that the CP4 is running..... Wouldn't you think Bosch would have gone that route instead of changing to the CP4.2. Even the aftermarket bypass kit that is offered for the Duramax and Ford would put people's minds at ease and seems as though it could be done for a very reasonable cost at the factory. (Aftermarket is expensive but what would it cost Bosch to add something like that to their fuel system ... $30?)

[4x4ord]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
"however pump failures are less common in Canada"

What do you base that on?

I don’t recall ever seeing any actual data on this but have read many times that the failure rate of these pumps is greater in North America vs Europe and significantly higher in the US vs Canada. Basically, I don’t want to worry about having a pump failure so believing the failure rate to be extremely low has worked very well for me. 🙂 I’ve saved a very significant amount of money by purchasing trucks based on price rather than fear of a mechanical problem that should be covered under warranty. But, like I said, I understand someone going to GM over this. I can understand someone avoiding Ford especially, due to Ford’s reputation for refusing warranty.

[ShinerBock]

I will say that the Denso HP3 and HP4 pumps are not without their flaws either. We have had some failures on them as well in the Hino(Toyota) medium duty diesel trucks. There are even a few TSB's out for them. The reason why most probably don't here about them is because Denso does not have that big of a market share especially in the personal vehicle market. Even on the commercial side, diesels powered by Denso fuel systems is very small.

I think people need to understand that these pumps are pumping at very high pressures. Just as with horsepower, the higher you go, the likelihood of component failure increases as well. For all you wanting and bragging about more stock short burst power, this is what you get because the manufacturers have to increase pressure every time they have a major power increase in order to stay emissions legal. You can't have your cake and eat it too. As with VG turbos and other components, you are starting to sacrifice reliability for the pursuit of more power on engines that also have to meet emissions.

Hence the reason why I would rather the engine makes have lower power, but use more reliable parts. I can easily add power after the fact that will make the truck more reliable by ditching things like electronically controlled VG turbos and so on that are less reliable than their mechanical counterparts.

[IdaD]

blofgren wrote:
If I were shopping for a new diesel truck right now it would almost certainly be a GM because they switched to a Denso pump.

Ditto. In fact this very issue was one of the big reasons I bought a Ram in 2015. While it's great that the CP4 has improved since it was first introduced, it's still a flaming turd as far as I'm concerned.

[ShinerBock]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
"however pump failures are less common in Canada"

What do you base that on?

I would have to ask the same too. You would have to at least have total failures data versus total diesels with said pump sold both countries which I don't know how someone would have. If it is based on the factor of just not seeing as many failures in Canada over the US, one would have to also consider the diesel truck sales volume of each country.

I know that Texas and California diesel fuel regulations are better than the US standard, but I don't know much about the Canadian standard. I would have to look at and compare the scar and lubricity ratings for both.

[Cummins12V98]

"however pump failures are less common in Canada"

What do you base that on?

[4x4ord]

I don’t blame you, however pump failures are less common in Canada. I think our fuel must provide a little better lubricity. I think I’ll buy what I want based on price and take my chances on the pump. In the unlikely event that my pump fails I’ll hope it’s cornered under warranty,

[blofgren]

4x4ord wrote:
Does Cummins use the same pump as Powerstroke cuz I just read that the Cummins has a 29000 psi fuel delivery system where as Ford claims they went to 36000 psi for 2020? I think both use the Bosch 4.2. How does that work?

Edit: Upon doing further google searches I found evidence of a CP4.2 pump failure in a 2020 Ford. Even if the pump has been changed for 2020 it sounds as though it’s still a POS. It seems almost unbelievable that Ford would stick with Bosch even if the number of failures are rare the damage these failing pumps do to the Powerstrokes reputation has got to be costly to Ford.

I'm not 100% certain, but I believe it is the same pump. They have made changes to them since they first appeared in the Ford and GM in 2011 which has improved the reliability, but it is still a crapshoot and is one of the major reasons I bought a Cummins with the trusty CP3 pump. I can't say I'm surprised that they are failing on the 2019 and up Cummins engines.

I work with a guy who had it happen on his 2012 F350; the truck was just outside of engine warranty mileage and Ford was going to stick him for the entire cost of the repair so he traded it while it was still in the shop on a 6.2L truck. He was not happy about it but was caught between a rock and a hard place. It may not be as common of a problem that it once was, but it still really sucks if it happens to you, especially if you end up footing the bill. If I were shopping for a new diesel truck right now it would almost certainly be a GM because they switched to a Denso pump.

[ShinerBock]

ford truck guy wrote:

MFL wrote:

ford truck guy wrote:
WOW.....

almost 15 pages of this banter back and forth !:S

Lots of banter for sure! With most forum sections being slow, tow vehicles still keeps somewhat active.

I still read much of this back/forth, and have to say, that Shiner has a lot of knowledge to share, and shares it in a respectable way. Just my observation, not taking anyone's side of the issues.

Jerry

TRUE Jerry,

I have always looked at BOTH shiner and 4ford, and MANY others here as A lot more knowledgeable than I ..

It IS interesting to read each post...

Thank you both! The only reason why I know a thing or two about this stuff is because it has been apart of my profession for the past 25 or so years. I am 100% certain that if I stepped into your world and what you did as your life's profession, I would be learning a whole lot of information that I didn't know from the both of you.

[ford_truck_guy]

ford truck guy wrote:

MFL wrote:

ford truck guy wrote:
WOW.....

almost 15 pages of this banter back and forth !:S

Lots of banter for sure! With most forum sections being slow, tow vehicles still keeps somewhat active.

I still read much of this back/forth, and have to say, that Shiner has a lot of knowledge to share, and shares it in a respectable way. Just my observation, not taking anyone's side of the issues.

Jerry

TRUE Jerry,

I have always looked at BOTH shiner and 4ord, and MANY others here as A lot more knowledgeable than I ..

It IS interesting to read each post...

[ford_truck_guy]

MFL wrote:

ford truck guy wrote:
WOW.....

almost 15 pages of this banter back and forth !:S

Lots of banter for sure! With most forum sections being slow, tow vehicles still keeps somewhat active.

I still read much of this back/forth, and have to say, that Shiner has a lot of knowledge to share, and shares it in a respectable way. Just my observation, not taking anyone's side of the issues.

Jerry

TRUE Jerry,

I have always looked at BOTH shiner and 4ford, and MANY others here as A lot more knowledgeable than I ..

It IS interesting to read each post...