'71 Starcraft Wanderstar- "The Hilton"

[westend]

Thought I should post this up because the "Search" feature doesn't return any results and there might be some useful info for older Starcraft owners or those that are mad enough to embark on a complete restoration.

I purchased this 1971 Starcraft-Wanderstar from a local chap with a special purpose in mind: Gutting out the interior to insulate and make comfrotable for working stiffs like myself and, in particular, for those doing work-camping in the upper Midwest. My criteria was: a name brand with solid fame construction, a body that could be worked with (no accident damage, and good running gear (wheels, tires, bearings, and hitch, etc.) I also focused my purchase towards a TT from 19'->26'. I have a Ford F-250 4x4, CC with trailer and tow package. Pictures of "The Hilton" (named and painted by a previous owner) as bought:











I am currently still working on the Hilton and have about three weeks into it, so far. I am keeping a pictorial work log and will share most of it if others are interested. I have totally gutted the inside and am discarding most of the mechanicals, along with replacing and eliminating windows, repairing water-damaged framing (all of the wall top plates and half of the studs), relocating most of the plumbing, replacing all of the wiring, and installing a completely different decorative style.

To give an idea of what I found after gutting out the inside, here is a picture of the driver's side and the wheel well:



Here is that same area after reconstruction, the new wheel well frame is skinned with 16 ga. steel sheet, inside, and sprayed with truck bed liner. The frame is insulated and there is a thermal break between any out side joining surfaces and the inside sheeting.



Two of the most cantankerous aspects have been the replacement of the top wall plates and aluminum trim rail and removal of the floor to insulate. The major obstacle to the first is the amount of various goop that was used by previous owners to stop water intrusion. That, and the thousands of clutch drive screws and staples that were removed. The basic carpentry was simple, I replaced the rotten wood with pressure treated fir and, after a day with a grinder fitted with a steel wire wheel to clean the trim rail, the surfaces were all sealed, stapled, and screwed back together.

This picture shows the new top plates and the rafter reinforcement I thought was necessary:



While diving into the wheel well repair I noticed the floor had deteriorated under the water heater. Closer examination showed that the 1 1/2" space underneath the floor was uninsulated, excepting the 1/2" Buildrite on top of the aluminum belly skin. I pulled all of the plywood and installed 1 1/2" of extruded polystyrene in that space:



I've replaced two of the three windows I planned on and have removed two, all together. Those vacated jalousie windows are framed and will become insulated wall.



Tomorrow, I'll be replacing the 72" front window and will then move on to the wiring. The existing Precision Dynamics converter tested to be OK and has a solid state battery charger so I will use that for the DC. I am upgrading the older 30 amp service to 50 amp. If there's interest, I can post some more pictures up of the restoration, as I progress, and am always open to any ideas from others.
FWIW, I am going with a Western motif for the interior and have already renamed my baby, "The Cowboy/Hilton".

Edit: Pictures in this thread are unviewable because of Photobucket's recent change in Terms of Service. I plan to migrate to a different hosting site and to repair the images. Please, be patient, as there are many images in this thread.

Edit: Anyone wanting to view images can download this browser extension:Browser extension. It makes all the images in this thread viewable.

[JiminDenver]

Every since I found our panels, I have been mentally mounting them. (boy that sounds bad lol )
I have thought of ways to make them tilt and rotate in a effort to get the most out of them. Most recently I thought of using large TV turn tables for the rotating part but as it gets more and more complicated I realized I really want to mount them flat and not have to get up on the roof or worry about the wind ripping them off. The 230w showed 8.8a max and the 220w should be less, so mounted flat they should be within the abilities of the Eco-worthy. Running them portable next season will tell me if flat will do or not.

[westend]

Absolutely, Jim, stave off the noise and aggravation of pulling out the genny!

I was trying to design a dual-axis tilting mount and just couldn't seem to get my brain around it. The neurons were mired in trying to implement four tilting mounts at the corners. I talked to a friend on the phone and within 30 seconds he had it designed and was going over the construction details. Pays to have a mechanically minded buddy! The epiphany was to use a separate partial frame for tilting and to attach hinged mounts to the tilting frame. This even allows for a complex angle to be used. I'll be building this out in the next few days.

[JiminDenver]

West

We have a Schott poly 230w and a Candiansolar 220w. I'll use either portable and tracking to do the job. Someday both mounted flat is the plan.
The 230w will start seeing 8-10 amps thru the eco-worthy as soon as the sun comes up and 15 amps at high noon tracking. It saw 8+ amps flat at noon with the smog in Denver.
That should cover our 30-40 ah usage day to day. That really only includes the rig as we usually only use four 9 LED cobs from dusk to bed time and no entertainment usage on the bank. Even with just 2 grp 27's we should be good for 3 days with no sunshine. Longer considering the 230w sees 1.78a in total overcast skies. Not much but something to stave off the need for the Champ.

[westend]

Yeah Jim, solar just makes too much sense, especially if your needs are towards the lower end. Why haul around a genset and have to fill it with gas when you can make it all work on solar. Besides, it involves electricity so count me in! The biggest energy hog for me is the small dorm fridge. My Killowatt tells me it should use about 20-40 AH/day, depending on weather. My other use is the electronics, TV, Stereo, DVD player and the operation of the air pump that pressurizes my water. The little compressor draws only 3 amps or so and it doesn't run like a demand pump, only runs to pressurize the tank and then will sit quietly until pressure in the 15 gal. tank drops below 20psi. Lights don't count, all LED's and less than 3AH/day. All together, I'm hoping for less than 60 AH/day. That would allow me almost three days with no sun.

What panel are you going to use? I probably read about it but my memory is shot.

Last time I had the Hilton on the Cat scale, it tallied 4920. The solar and batteries should push it up to 5100-5200. I'll be installing the 6v batteries amidships so I don't increase the tongue weight anymore than I have to. Currently, my tongue weight is 560 lbs..

[JiminDenver]

That panel should be wonderful for you just as I'm expecting ours to be for us. We are low level power users and from what I remember you are even lower usage than us considering you have no control panels on your fridge and water heater, no fan on the furnace or alarms. Hmmmm just what will you be using all that power for anyways? lol
I do have to ask, just how much do you think the Hilton weighs by now?

[westend]

Thought I'd update a little...

The Hilton is going through it's first snow load test, we got about 12" of wet snow to fall on us in a couple of days.





Of course, with the blanket of snow acting as more insulation, the inside is really easy to heat and nice and cozy. I sat inside, yesterday, to catch some of the ballgames. The little electric heater was set at medium-low and it was real comfortable.

Soon, I'll be pushing all of the white stuff off because the Hilton is going solar!

I picked up this MX-Solar 235w panel on a Black Friday deal, good price for a well built Made in USA panel.



I have a charge controller and other associated hardware on the way. I'll be adding two golf cart batteries, also, so my battery bank will be 320 AH. That should allow for three days or so running, even if the sun doesn't shine. I'm hoping that the panel will keep the batteries charged to supplement my daily AH draw. If not, I'll get another panel.

[westend]

JaredWPhillips wrote:
Thoroughly enjoyed this post. I feel like a child by even suggesting something after reading your wealth of knowledge and experience, but I do have a suggestion about your tank heating issue. You mentioned using the heated gutter cables, which as you said may be overkill except for extreme cold. What if you used the heated cables as the primary heat source, but also supplemented that with standard heated pipe tape? The stuff you see on water spigots and home plumbing. Wrap it around the exit/valve and back under the tank. Use it for moderate conditions but have the ability to "turn on the heat" of the gutter cables during extreme cold.
The heat tape alone probably wouldn't keep a full tank from freezing, but it should work around the valve/exit area and pipe.

Hey,Jared,
Thanks for your advice on the heated pipe tape. I have some of that and your description of using it on the pipe ends was exactly what I thought might work. If I insulate around the heat tape and pipes, it may be all that is needed if I can insulate the waste tank well enough. It may be that the heat tape heats the pipe and liquid inside to the point that it is the only thing needed.

I thought ahead on this tank heating affair and installed a 120v GFCI that has two switches. It's located just outboard of the tank and pipes, mounted in an all-weather box attached to the frame. What I fogot to include in my engineering is how easy it will be to access if I choose to have skirting around the Hilton at a pemanent location.

There is still some trepidation on my part to building this all out. It seems to be a difficult thing to construct and the worthiness of the result is going to be in question until needed, I guess. My progress was interupted by a visit from relatives over the last few days. They stayed in the Hilton so I didn't want to start welding and such while they were using the TT. I'll start building the box around the tank in the next few days. It's raining today so that will give me a chance to round up some more of the materials needed, aluminum sheet, insulation, and such. I have enough steel to get the frame built, scrounged a couple of bed frames that should be just the right size for this effort. I'll try to get some pictures up when the weather has cleared.

[JaredWPhillips]

Thoroughly enjoyed this post. I feel like a child by even suggesting something after reading your wealth of knowledge and experience, but I do have a suggestion about your tank heating issue. You mentioned using the heated gutter cables, which as you said may be overkill except for extreme cold. What if you used the heated cables as the primary heat source, but also supplemented that with standard heated pipe tape? The stuff you see on water spigots and home plumbing. Wrap it around the exit/valve and back under the tank. Use it for moderate conditions but have the ability to "turn on the heat" of the gutter cables during extreme cold.
The heat tape alone probably wouldn't keep a full tank from freezing, but it should work around the valve/exit area and pipe.

[westend]

wickedfun wrote:
I'm wondering about the drain pipe, its graded and unless it is both plugged and full it should have a place to expand and not split, I thinking insulate yes, heat tape maybe not, it could be a good place to simplify.

I can see where you're coming from on the pipe but in this case, the pipe is filled to the dump valve. I'm afraid that if I don't offer a bit of auxiliary heat, the pipe may freeze and split. If I could, I'd extend the insulated enclosure right out to the end of the 3" drain pipe but I have the auxiliary 2" valves that control grey water flow to the black tank and the drain outlet that need to remain operable in that space. I could replace them with cable assemblies but what would I be able to do if replacement was necessary and they were enclosed?
Tomorrow, I'll get some pictures up of the waste tank and piping so that better reference can be made. Thanks for your input, it is sometimes only a small spark that is needed to light the fire.

[wickedfun]

I'm wondering about the drain pipe, its graded and unless it is both plugged and full it should have a place to expand and not split, I thinking insulate yes, heat tape maybe not, it could be a good place to simplify.

[westend]

Thought I'd bump this thread up because I have a question or two. First, small update on the Hilton. I finished the heater piping and then moved on to the TV. I have a repairable Samsung LCD but don't know when that will get done or if it is worthy of the Cowboy/Hilton so I went down to Sam's and picked up a Magnavox LED lit 32". Happens that this is also the most energy efficient panel in it's class. Win-win.
I made a mounting board to span three studs:



Mounting arm attached to back of screen:



Game on:



Now on to the next poject and this has to do with those questions. I'm going to build an insulated and heated enclosure around my single waste tank. I plan to do this with a steel frame, aluminum cover panels, foam board insulation, and a heating wire device used to keep gutters deiced. The drain piping will be individually insulated and heat taped, also.
First question: Has anyone done this or know of someone that has?
Second: Am I overlooking anything fundamentally wrong with the general aspect or materials scheduled?
Third: What would be the easiest way to control operation of the gutter tape? It puts out so much heat that it will melt a 24' solidly iced gutter in a few hours. I know it's overkill but if an event like a full tank of waste sits in subzero climate for a few days, it may be nice to have the overkill available. In regular operation, it might only be necesary to use 10% of it's output.

[westend]

CavemanCharlie wrote:
I know the picture makes it seem closer then it really is but, for safety reasons I have to add; Watch out for those overhead wires with those antennas !

Ya, I was eager to mount the J-pole and it is close to the service wires. I will pull the Hilton forward in the next couple of days and then, demount the J-pole. My service wires are in pretty good shape but there is always that one chance....;)

[westend]

MrSurly wrote:
Very interesting, and addresses a question that I had been mulling over to ask you. I was wondering how that flue was going to draft at all, given that you had successfully built a literally airtight trailer. I had missed the mention of a combustion air inlet in your build.
I quite sure I don't understand the need for or the purpose of the Tee.
As always, your work is top-notch.
Is it the plan to fully close the combustion air from the interior air?
I like your antenna builds and hope you have a handy link to the build details as I would like to replicate.

btw: yes, we're out here watching!

What I'm doing with the vent is a new tactic. In the last few RV's that the Old Sportsman heater has seen, it has been supplied with outside combustion air. What I hope to do is supply the combustion air AND the uptake air into the flue. This will mean a lot less air infiltration from doors and windows. Albeit, I've kind of trained myself to leave a vent cover up for a bit of fresh air.
The antenna builds are well documented. Let me know if I can help you.

[CavemanCharlie]

I know the picture makes it seem closer then it really is but, for safety reasons I have to add; Watch out for those overhead wires with those antennas !

[MrSurly]

Very interesting, and addresses a question that I had been mulling over to ask you. I was wondering how that flue was going to draft at all, given that you had successfully built a literally airtight trailer. I had missed the mention of a combustion air inlet in your build.
I quite sure I don't understand the need for or the purpose of the Tee.
As always, your work is top-notch.
Is it the plan to fully close the combustion air from the interior air?
I like your antenna builds and hope you have a handy link to the build details as I would like to replicate.

btw: yes, we're out here watching!